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2007 F115 starter relay position and how do you "jump it"?

S

sudiki

Member
Trying to locate the starter relay. I think it's a small squarish black "box" with 2 wires on it that's suppose to be near the starter. Is it on the front side down low to the right of the fuse box? And how do you "jump" it to bypass it to see if the starter turns/ Just use a short wire and connect to both contacts on the relay? I also read somewhere to disconnect the brown "bullet" connector wire and apply 12 volts to that?

Something is preventing the starter from operating. The first time I tried I heard a "clunk" sound, then nothing on repeated start attempts. I found out the bendix was stuck up onto the fly wheel so tapped it down with a rubber mallet. I put a little penetrating oil on the shaft thinking that maybe it had some buildup/corrosion on the shaft causing it to stay up and engaged with the flywheel. Then I tried it again and no clunk but a short "buzz" sound from something/somewhere on the engine, then again nothing like before while trying to start it a few more times.

The batteries are new and fully charged. I cleaned the cables with a brass brush. I think I'll trace them back and see if maybe the go to some sort of junction box before going to the engine/starter, if so clean all those contacts. The starter cable is shiny and clean and looks like it just came off off the assembly line.

It's not in gear as or seized as I can turn the prop and I can turn the engine over by hand (with plugs out)
 
sudiki said:
Trying to locate the starter relay. I think it's a small squarish black "box" with 2 wires on it that's suppose to be near the starter. Is it on the front side down low to the right of the fuse box? And how do you "jump" it to bypass it to see if the starter turns/ Just use a short wire and connect to both contacts on the relay? I also read somewhere to disconnect the brown "bullet" connector wire and apply 12 volts to that?

Something is preventing the starter from operating. The first time I tried I heard a "clunk" sound, then nothing on repeated start attempts. I found out the bendix was stuck up onto the fly wheel so tapped it down with a rubber mallet. I put a little penetrating oil on the shaft thinking that maybe it had some buildup/corrosion on the shaft causing it to stay up and engaged with the flywheel. Then I tried it again and no clunk but a short "buzz" sound from something/somewhere on the engine, then again nothing like before while trying to start it a few more times.

The batteries are new and fully charged. I cleaned the cables with a brass brush. I think I'll trace them back and see if maybe the go to some sort of junction box before going to the engine/starter, if so clean all those contacts. The starter cable is shiny and clean and looks like it just came off off the assembly line.

It's not in gear as or seized as I can turn the prop and I can turn the engine over by hand (with plugs out)
Click to expand...
The starter Bendix is supposed to be serviced annually. Who maintains this and why didn't they do the service, as recommended?

The Solenoid is the relay. No small relay will handle the current that's required to crank a motor. If it doesn't crank, you need a new solenoid, but you can bypass it to find out if the starter will work.
 
There is no Yamaha recommendation to periodically service the starter motor.

The F115 model uses a starter relay to activate a starter solenoid. The relay is activated when the key switch is turned to the start position.

Brown wire from the key switch to the relay. Brown wire with white tracer from the relay to the solenoid.

Relay is located to the left of the voltage regulator at the front of the motor. Solenoid is located on the starter motor.

Apply voltage to the brown/white wire. Solenoid should close and the starter motor should crank the motor.

Apply voltage to the brown wire. Relay should close and apply voltage to the brown/white wire. Starter motor should crank the motor.

See below.

 
boscoe said:
There is no Yamaha recommendation to periodically service the starter motor.

The F115 model uses a starter relay to activate a starter solenoid. The relay is activated when the key switch is turned to the start position.

Brown wire from the key switch to the relay. Brown wire with white tracer from the relay to the solenoid.

Relay is located to the left of the voltage regulator at the front of the motor. Solenoid is located on the starter motor.

Apply voltage to the brown/white wire. Solenoid should close and the starter motor should crank the motor.

Apply voltage to the brown wire. Relay should close and apply voltage to the brown/white wire. Starter motor should crank the motor.

See below.
Click to expand...
I have worked on Yamaha OBs that needed the solenoid to be lubed- surprised that they don't recommend it.

Thanks for the diagrams.
 
jimn said:
The starter Bendix is supposed to be serviced annually. Who maintains this and why didn't they do the service, as recommended?

The Solenoid is the relay. No small relay will handle the current that's required to crank a motor. If it doesn't crank, you need a new solenoid, but you can bypass it to find out if the starter will work.
Click to expand...
 
jimn said:
The starter Bendix is supposed to be serviced annually. Who maintains this and why didn't they do the service, as recommended?

The Solenoid is the relay. No small relay will handle the current that's required to crank a motor. If it doesn't crank, you need a new solenoid, but you can bypass it to find out if the starter will work.
Click to expand...
It sat a number of yrs before my dad decided he couldn't use it anymore.
boscoe said:
There is no Yamaha recommendation to periodically service the starter motor.

The F115 model uses a starter relay to activate a starter solenoid. The relay is activated when the key switch is turned to the start position.

Brown wire from the key switch to the relay. Brown wire with white tracer from the relay to the solenoid.

Relay is located to the left of the voltage regulator at the front of the motor. Solenoid is located on the starter motor.

Apply voltage to the brown/white wire. Solenoid should close and the starter motor should crank the motor.

Apply voltage to the brown wire. Relay should close and apply voltage to the brown/white wire. Starter motor should crank the motor.

See below.

Click to expand...
Thank you. can I just apply 12v to the large red starter wire/nut that's on the starter or do I have to do it to the brwn/white wire? I tested a starter on my zero turn mower by just applying 12v directly to the starter to see if it turned (it did) so I replaced the relay and all was good.
 
Is the relay just behind the large mass of small wires coming out the left side of the ECU? with the brwn/white wire going to the wire junction assembly that has the PTT blue and green wires wires on it too? I tried to uplaod a pic but server says it's too large. where is the Brown wire with a bullet connector that some say you can unplug and apply 12v to it to get the starter to turn? I don't see it.

thx
 
boscoe said:
#1 is the main relay.
Click to expand...
Thx. I just wish someone could post a pic of the starter relay on the engine so I know where it's at and looks like when installed. I have a good idea but just can't seem to I.D. it; yet....

I think it's mounted just above the PTT relay at an angle looking at diagrams. I took a pic yesterday of the area it should be in. Is it right above the PTT relay assembly (I have removed the PTT leads as my PTT is being refurbed) with the two rubber boots just left of the large red wire?

It's pouring rain today so don't think I'll be able to do anything until tomorrow.
 

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It is right above the trim and tilt relay. As shown in the diagram above. In your photo you can see the brown/white wire that connects the relay to the starter motor solenoid. Rubber boots covering the power terminals.
 
outstanding! Thx.

yes I did see the diagram but I wasn't sure as to the actual position as the "line diagrams" you follow for placement/installation (like shown for some of the screws/bolts) weren't on the relay so I couldn't "follow" it to it's position...

So now that I know exactly where it's at, :) I assume the "bullet" connector that I have read you can apply 12v power to to check starter motor is up under the ECU harness? or can I jump the brown/white and the red power terminals together on the relay itself instead?
 
boscoe said:
Find the brown wire bullet connector and apply battery positive. See what happens.
Click to expand...
I'll try that if I can get to it easily (the bullet connector). It would be easier to jump the bwn/wht and red pwr terminals together as they are very accesible. would that work too? (to activate the starter motor?)
 
Jumpering the brown/white wire to battery positive should activate the starter motor. That is what it is supposed to do.

Just like the diagram in post #3 above shows.
 
OK. will try tomorrow. (raining today). I just hope the bullet connector is easy to get to/apart and isn't buried behind a bunch of stuff that needs to be moved/removed. Do I stilll need put the ignition key to the start position or does just applying 12v to the bullet connector activate the starter? I think after looking at the diagram in post #3 that I will be bypassing the relay itself by using the bullet connecter and sending pwr directly to the starter motor solenoid.??

I guess I'm a "little" confused because there looks to be a brwn wire on the relay with a bullet connector (post#8/9 pics). And the diagram in post#3 has both a brwn wire and a brwn/wht wire at the relay also.

thx for the tips and help..
 
From the diagrams and Boscoe's post, the brown wire sends current to the relay, the br/w wire sends current from relay to starter solenoid, so jumping the br wire at bullet connection leading to the relay will send current from relay through the br/w wire to the solenoid. But if the relay is faulty it might not reach the br/w wire, if nothing happens try the br/w wire, if that works then it's a bad relay.
Mike
 
siluetae137 said:
From the diagrams and Boscoe's post, the brown wire sends current to the relay, the br/w wire sends current from relay to starter solenoid, so jumping the br wire at bullet connection leading to the relay will send current from relay through the br/w wire to the solenoid. But if the relay is faulty it might not reach the br/w wire, if nothing happens try the br/w wire, if that works then it's a bad relay.
Mike
Click to expand...
ok, check. I guess the brwn wire is likely coming from the ignition switch?
 
Red (battery +) wire to the key switch.

Brown wire (battery +) from the key switch (start position) to the relay.

Relay closes. Brown/white (battery +) to the starter motor solenoid.

Starter motor solenoid closes. Battery + to the starter motor.
 
sudiki said:
OK. will try tomorrow. (raining today). I just hope the bullet connector is easy to get to/apart and isn't buried behind a bunch of stuff that needs to be moved/removed. Do I stilll need put the ignition key to the start position or does just applying 12v to the bullet connector activate the starter? I think after looking at the diagram in post #3 that I will be bypassing the relay itself by using the bullet connecter and sending pwr directly to the starter motor solenoid.??

I guess I'm a "little" confused because there looks to be a brwn wire on the relay with a bullet connector (post#8/9 pics). And the diagram in post#3 has both a brwn wire and a brwn/wht wire at the relay also.

thx for the tips and help..
Click to expand...
Brown wire from the key switch to the control circuit of the relay.

When there is voltage on the control circuit the relay closes.

Battery + then flows through the relay power circuit and on to the control circuit of the solenoid.

When there is voltage on the solenoid control circuit the solenoid closes.

Battery + then flows through the solenoid power circuit and on to the starter motor.
 
boscoe said:
Brown wire from the key switch to the control circuit of the relay.

When there is voltage on the control circuit the relay closes.

Battery + then flows through the relay power circuit and on to the control circuit of the solenoid.

When there is voltage on the solenoid control circuit the solenoid closes.

Battery + then flows through the solenoid power circuit and on to the starter motor.
Click to expand...
great!

so I just have to ask.... if the relay is good but the starter solonoid is bad; could you not just apply 12v to the starter motor (large red wire on main body of starter) to see if the starter engages/turns?

I did that on a zero turn mower yrs ago by using a jumper from the batt directly to the main pwr cable stud on the starter to see if the starter activated. it did so I replace the solonoid (or relay I don't remember which now) and it was fixed.

Thx again to all who took the time to answer my inexperienced questions. I'll see what happens tomorrow or the next day and get back to you all with results. good or not so good.....
 
sudiki said:
great!

so I just have to ask.... if the relay is good but the starter solonoid is bad; could you not just apply 12v to the starter motor (large red wire on main body of starter) to see if the starter engages/turns?

I did that on a zero turn mower yrs ago by using a jumper from the batt directly to the main pwr cable stud on the starter to see if the starter activated. it did so I replace the solonoid (or relay I don't remember which now) and it was fixed.

Thx again to all who took the time to answer my inexperienced questions. I'll see what happens tomorrow or the next day and get back to you all with results. good or not so good.....
Click to expand...
Yes, you can short across the starter terminals
 
sudiki said:
great!

so I just have to ask.... if the relay is good but the starter solonoid is bad; could you not just apply 12v to the starter motor (large red wire on main body of starter) to see if the starter engages/turns?

I did that on a zero turn mower yrs ago by using a jumper from the batt directly to the main pwr cable stud on the starter to see if the starter activated. it did so I replace the solonoid (or relay I don't remember which now) and it was fixed.

Thx again to all who took the time to answer my inexperienced questions. I'll see what happens tomorrow or the next day and get back to you all with results. good or not so good.....
Click to expand...
The F115 starter motor can draw upwards of 260 amperes. If you are going to bypass the solenoid and power the motor directly you want to use a large cable to do so. Be prepared for some sparking. Possibly welding your cable to the terminal.

The large red wire to the solenoid is connected to the battery. You would apply battery power to the other solenoid connection. The one that runs over to the starter motor.
 
boscoe said:
keyboard test
Click to expand...
boscoe.
I appreciate you trying to educate me but I have little to no experience in reading electrical diagrams so it's a bit difficult. in both posts 26/25 i see the power going from the key switch via br to the relay. then from the relay to the solonoid via br/wt

I also see R on the relay (from the connection under the rubber boot) to the fuse (I think) then on to the solonoid and then starter.

My question is if the relay is bad (or good) and/or the selonoid is bad too, can't I just apply 12v to the large R on the starter motor solonoid itself to see if it activates. It looks like the large R goes to the solonoid AND the starter too which if true, should activate the starter even if the solonoid is bad.....
 

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