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Honda BF25D 2007 Cylinder 3 Issue

D

DHackl52

New member
Hey guys

I recently got a 2007 BF25D from my grandfather. It had been in storage for almost 10 years. It has only 160 hours on it.

I brought it to my local Honda shop. They did a complete overhaul of the carbs. They also did all of the recommended services impeller, engine oil, gear oil.

When I got it back it was idling good, but when I got it on the water it was very under powered and the tach was only hitting 3600 RPM.

I did a cylinder drop test, and realized the third cylinder was not firing at idle. Brought it back to the dealer, they went through carbs again. This time they also replaced the dash pot, and the third ignition coil before giving up….it still is only idling on the top two cylinders.

When I did the cylinder drop test, and I held the spark boot close to the plug - the ticking on the third cylinder ( the one not firing) is much faster than the other two. When I move the #3 coil up the cylinder #2 it does not fire either and the motor will run on 1 cylinder.

Any suggestions here? Did I need to grab a OHM meter and get work testing? I don’t want to just start ordering parts with out a plan, and the dealer was not much help. I am decent with a wrench but not a mechanic by any means.
 
Replace the dashpot? I'd like to hear their explanation for doing THAT!

It does convince me though that you are a MUCH better choice for doing the work.

They owe you money!

Yes, you need to figure out why the problem follows that coil. But you'll need info for that. Do you have a shop manual?

If not, I suggest ohming the coil and comparing what you measure to what the other coils say. Hopefully, that will tell you what you need to know.

Good luck.
 
Yes I ordered the shop manual and the carb Manual and they have just arrived.

Definitely disappointed in the dealer, but not really surprised either. They did not charge me for the second trip when they didnt resolve the issue. They said “sometimes these dash post valves can cause problem like this” …

After reading this forum, My first guess would’ve been the idle circuit in cylinder #3 BUT the dealer replaced all jets, o-rings, and gaskets. Not saying there isn’t a chance the problem is not there…but with spark ticking difference I’ll start there. I don’t have an OHMmeter any suggestions on decent ones? Or how sensitive it needs to be?
 
Wwll, after you read the section in the carb manual about the dash pot's function, you'll see they are full of IT.

Either that or you could explain to ME how they could possibly be correct in that assesment.

I would be suspicious about pretty much anything they touched.

Although, your swapping the coils to see if the "miss" moved was spot on and will likely have you fixing it quick.

10 years in storage subjects things to a lot of moisture "swings" so closely inspecting connector terminals and inside those plug wire caps is indicated. You may find a reason to not have to replace the coil.
 
Sorry, i forgot about your meter question. I guess my most useful advice is ....homework.
You need to do some before plunking down cash for possibly one of the most useful tools you can own.

It's been years since I bought my Fluke 87 and 87 V meters They aren't super precision but are considered "high end" for quality and the specs for most of the Fluke models is more than adequate for professional auto technicians...even these days.

Having said that, you won't need anything near as expensive as Fluke meters typically cost. Although, i think you might do well checking out their line because they do offer less expensive models that could be a good bargain for the DIY guy and the company has always had great support when needed.

Things to consider:
Accuracy....+/- 1% or less
You want to be confident that your measurements are "in the ballpark"
You will pay a bit more 0.5% accuracy

Impedence...10 megaohm is considered "computer safe" as it ensures that the meter will not allow current flow that damages delicate electronics when taking measurements like resistance.

Auto ranging...auto ranging is a "convenience" that you will pay more for but, if you don't manually select the correct range, you can be led astray taking measurements.

Klein Tools sells a manual ranging meter at the big box hardware stores for around $35 and an autoranging model for about twice that amount.
I was unable to easily find the specs for either of those so a bit more homework would be needed before purchase.

I would stick with "known brand" models rather than "chump-king" offerings on ebay or amazama.

Beware of those "Worlds Best" or "Top Ten" product review sites. They usually exist to suck you in to buying their $16 "version" of the $225 name brand. Hint...you won't be happy with what $16 can get you in a meter.
 
Thank you for the info! I have ordered a meter and I’m waiting for it should be here this week. Did some research and I think it was a good choice.

Since I have the manual I figured I’d get started going down the list…

Pulled the plugs today and tested compression.
#1 190
#2 195
#3 190

Considering it’s a 2007 I’m happy with that and eliminates cylinder issues. I uploaded pictures of the three plugs, again not a mechanic. Can you tell anything from these? I’ll check timing tomorrow. One thing the service manual isn’t clear on is the difference between exciter and pulse coil?
 

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Are those plugs original?

The plugs support that there's been ignition at #1 and #2 and little to none at #3. But, because it has only run on two cylinders and then on only one for a brief time, i can't read much into what I'm seeing there. The bottom plug looks so fouled, it may not be capable of firing at all.
You may want to consider a new set of NGK DR7EA. I don't recommend cleaning plugs but people do.

Compression looks great but racerone may have a good point about checking the valve clearances.

Engine compression is a good indicator of general health and valve train operation but many engines will still pass a compression test with misadjusted valves. At 160 hours I would expect practically no wear but I've also seen plenty of engines shipped from factories with loose or missing bolts and nuts. None of us or our assembly machines are perfect.

The exciter coil is under the flywheel and provides the voltage to fire the ignition. See item 2 in link below


The pulser coil is mounted under the cam pulley. It generates a small voltage that electronically, and at the precise time, interrupts the current in the ignition coil primary windings much like the points did in the old days. See item 12 in link below


I just re-read your original statement and realize I missed that you said coil #3 was replaced by the dealer. If so, the coil not firing could simply be the result of a bad connection someplace for that coil. Sitting 10 years gives moisture a chance to build corrosion in connections and gives little critters a chance to do what they do in dark spaces.
I apologize for skipping that piece of possible vital information.

I hope you find it!
 
Definitely change the plugs and run something like sea foam in the gas, a high dose. Those 2 plugs are badly fouled, your valves and cylinders may have a load of crap too, the sea foam will help clean that out. And adjust the valves as suggested.
 
Also, did all fuel filters get changed? If those plugs are that ugly, maybe the filters are ugly too. 10 year old fuel will be very ugly and if the dealer didn’t do new plugs, the filters are suspect.
 
Thank you guys for the suggestions!

I have not checked timing or valve clearance yet as the meter came in early. I went ahead checked the resistance on the following

Ignition coil 3: primary .21 (within spec)
Secondary 3.3K (within spec)

Ignition pulse generator/exciter 2 prong: 7 (within spec)

Here’s where I am a little confused as the manual has two different numbers for the pulsar coil/ camshaft sensor 4 prong.

I tested the 3 prongs against the ground - I’m assuming each one is for each pulsar. 2 of them were around 680+-ohms and one was 1400 ohms..I think this is where I’m having an issue?
The manual shows two different specs for this I attached in photos. Maybe one for A series motor vs D? It doesn’t specify. I’m guessing since two of them were within spec of the one on the troubleshooting tree that is my number?

Anyways thanks for the help here I’ve learned a lot so far and enjoying it. I’ll report back with timing and valves shortly. I’m also planning on taking apart the carbs, and just double checking the dealers work…after reading the manual JGMO you were right…I have zero trust in anything they did. I’m not even sure if they looked at a manual!
 

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Also the spark plugs are brand new, they were changed the first time I brought the motor in about 2 months ago (well according to the dealer). I’ve ran the boat a few times and it’s idled quite a bit while I’ve messed with it in my driveway but that’s about it. I’ll try the seafoam
 
Actually I was wrong. I had the wires crossed. All three pulsars measured within spec at or around 680. Kinda stumped here. Worth digging into the CDI tests or give the carburetor a shot?
 
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