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1981 Johnson 115HP wants to idle at 25 deg AFTER TDC

dschluer

New member
No matter what I do I can't get my 1981 Johnson 115HP (J115TLCIM) to run smooth consistently. It's usually great at the high RPM but hesitant at low. Feels like one cylinder might not be firing.

I do my I own work on the motor because I like mechanical stuff and can't really afford to hire a pro anyway (although with 20/20 hindsight I'd probably be ahead in the long run). I pay the price for my lack of knowledge though in that I usually will replace a part vs. troubleshooting it thoroughly. My rationale is that it's a very old motor with the original parts so I'm avoiding future problems. I've replaced every component in the ignition system all the way from the plugs to the stator (plugs, plug wires, coil assembly, power pack, rectifier, timer base, and stator). I've also gone through the carburetor.

That background brings me to my latest problem that I can't figure out. I finally bit the bullet and just replaced the stator (P/N 0581987) and timer base (P/N 0582014) with ones from CDI. The parts installation went smoothly but the timing and synchronization have me stumped. Here are the steps I've taken and the problems I've encountered.

1. Assured the timing pointer read TDC when #1 cylinder was at TDC
2. Assured that there is no play in the linkage between the cam follower and the throttle valves.
3. Assured that the cam follower aligns with the top mark on the cam at the initial point of contact.

This step was unclear to me:
4. The instructions I was following said to adjust the throttle cable adjustment wheel until the idle adjustment screw contacts the idle stop if it doesn't already touch. This seems to assume that the idle screw is positioned where it should be. It probably isn't because I tweaked it many times trying to get the engine to work better at idle so consider these messed up.

Here's where I'm really stuck:
5. The next step is to synchronize the throttle and timer linkage. You are supposed to attach a timing light to cylinder #1, start the engine, and slowly open the throttle with the control box warmup lever until the timing reads 4-6 degrees BTDC. Then, leaving the throttle in this position, you shut the engine off. Then you're supposed to adjust the throttle cam yoke as required to align with the top (short) mark on the throttle cam with the center of the cam roller.

My problem is that the timing light indicates the engine is idling about 20-25 degrees AFTER TDC (to the right of TDC on the flywheel)! I thought I might have a sheared key on the flywheel so I pulled it and the key is intact and in the slot.

I could really use your help on this ASAP. I'm taking the boat on vacation Jul 21-31. Unless I can get this fixed before Sunday it looks like the trolling motor will have to do all the work. I apologize in advance for any delays in responding to your questions after Sunday. The campsite is without cell phone access but we usually manage to escape for our daily "data fix" at some time each day. I'll be taking my tools!

Compression Readings:
#1: 95
#2: 100
#3: 90
#4: 97

Spark strong after stator replacement. Will jump 1/2" gap.
 
Some will argue , but.-----Your compression numbers suggest to me that you have major issues with pistons and rings.-----So test with another gauge in case your gauge is off.-----Remove the 4 wee bypass covers to inspect pistons / rings.----Just 6 small screws per cover.-----May need 4 new gaskets at $2.00 each.-----A lot cheaper than a STATOR.-------Post what you find.-----And no the timing light can not be used to determine a sheared key either !!
 
Some will argue , but.-----Your compression numbers suggest to me that you have major issues with pistons and rings.-----So test with another gauge in case your gauge is off.-----Remove the 4 wee bypass covers to inspect pistons / rings.----Just 6 small screws per cover.-----May need 4 new gaskets at $2.00 each.-----A lot cheaper than a STATOR.-------Post what you find.-----And no the timing light can not be used to determine a sheared key either !!

Thanks for your observations and info on the compression, racerone. I wasn't aware of the easy way to inspect the pistons and rings. This will have to wait until I solve the problem of the timing, however. If I can't get the motor timed correctly everything else doesn't matter and I'll be forced to sell the boat.

I beg to differ on the timing light not being able to indicate a sheared flywheel key. If the flywheel was not rotating at the correct position on the shaft the timing marks on the flywheel would not be in the correct position when cylinder #1 fired and the timing light flashed.
 
WRONG-----You can not find a sheared flywheel key with your timing light !!-----Time to learn how this magneto works !
 
How positive are you that #1 is even firing? You could have the pic up hanging on the wire to close to the #2 wire. I would also get another gauge to double check the compression.
 
UPDATE 11:30PM 7/18/19

I hope replying to my own post is the proper way to assure that all see my update.

The timing problem has been resolved!! I borrowed a timing light and compression checker from my local auto parts store today and retested my prior compression and timing measurements. The compression readings followed pretty closely to those I had made but were about 5 psi higher (see below).

When I checked the timing with the borrowed timing light, however, I was pleasantly surprised to find the timing right on where it should be, 4-6 deg BTDC. Turns out my timing light was screwed up. Tomorrow my next step will be to set the Maximum Spark Advance. I'll be using the Reeves Method since I don't have a tank and balance wheel. Thank you, Mr. Reeves!!

Barring any additional hurdles, I'll be testing the new settings on Lake Crowley on Monday. If anyone has any suggestions or additional steps I should take before or during the lake trial please let me know. I'll post the results as able during my vacation.

New Compression Readings:
#1: 100
#2: 105
#3: 95
#4:100
 
Glad to hear that your engine's "idle timing" boo boo has been resolved. Without that as a starting point, the link & sync routine is a waste of time.

The sheared flywheel key discussion.... It's always been the case with me that if that flywheel key was even slightly sheared, the engine would be out of time and would not run... period! If it was me, I'd yank that flywheel off to have a look and get that out of the way... then just install the flywheel finger tight on the nut (unless you intend to run it) so as to east it's removal time and time again for various reasons during the trouble shooting.

Yeah, the compression not the greatest and indicates internal damage to some degree... but the engine should be able to run with that psi. Compression varies with the rpm so if you have an unusually slow cranking engine... the reading will be low. Keep in mind that a slow cranking engine also affects the ignition as the cranking rpm must be approximately 300 rpm in order for the stator to energize the powerpack.
 
You might try running a can of Johnson Engine Tuner through your motor. Carefully follow the directions on the can. It may free up your rings. It improved the compression on my 1990 90 hp Johnson by a significant amount.
 
No matter what I do I can't get my 1981 Johnson 115HP (J115TLCIM) to run smooth consistently. It's usually great at the high RPM but hesitant at low. Feels like one cylinder might not be firing.

Well, just returned from my vacation in the Sierras and the motor ran GREAT! Still good top end speed but now good low end speed too for trolling. I'll look into the other suggestions you folks have made too regarding compression. Maybe that can be improved some as well without breaking the bank. Thanks again, everyone!
 
You might try running a can of Johnson Engine Tuner through your motor. Carefully follow the directions on the can. It may free up your rings. It improved the compression on my 1990 90 hp Johnson by a significant amount.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.
 
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