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454 troubleshooting

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Jmodified

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Purchased a Glastron CSS 19 with a 1989 454 with water in the oil. Drained the oil, rebuilt the carb, flushed the fuel tank. Idled with muffs on the lower unit. Temp gage went to 3/4 then dropped to a bit over 1/4, when t stat opened dirty nasty water came from exhaust pipes. Oil has water in it again.onitores oil before tstat opened and level was fine. After tstat opened water in the oil. What should I check first? Manifolds? Then oil cooler? Then heads and block? 1st post here, have rebuild many motors, just been 25 years since owning my old Bayliner 2651. Thanks for the help in advance!
 
Hope your budget when you purchased that boat included a replacement engine... The most benign fault that would result in oil in the water would be a bad head gasket... which might come with a warped head (s)... after that... gets expensive fast.
 
Yes, knew I could be purchasing a motor, oil cooler and or ex manifolds. Have a bores scope I did when first pulled the plugs before I changed the oil and ran it.
 
Would look if you are getting water in cylinder see through exhaust then pressure test cooling system. Is this a salt water engine ? Possible it is freeze damage
 
Jmodified said:
Came from Pennsylvania, suspect freeze. Was supposed to have been winterized.
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Then pressure test the cooling system. A lot of folks use the suck up AF method of winterizing which is likely a cause of more busted engines

If there is debris in there likely didn’t get properly winterized

Michigan motorz has remans and new engines if you need one
 
Thanks for the info, tearing into it tomorrow. Have a marine short block builder 3 hrs from me. I'll have the heads fluxed and straightened if needed. Just hoping it is just the manifolds. Getting old to be yanking big blocks anymore! Lol
 
Before you "tear" in to it, you might consider compression test, leak down test and a pressure test for the heat exchanger if closed cooling. Blown head gasket will become evident with a compression test. More often than not, it is a leaking gasket on the exhaust manifold to riser connection allowing water to flow back through the exhaust port. May also be an oil cooler leak but I would think that the oil pressure would be higher than that from the water pump.

From what you described, when T-stat opened, water wound up in oil. If you did not change the oil more than once, there is a reasonable chance you did not remove all of the oil-water mix. I've found it can take at least 3 changes of oil & filters on a Mark IV 454 to clear out any residue. One change can leave enough in the top end to lead you to believe that there was additional leakage.

Let us know the results of your testing.
 
I considered that, however, when I purchased the boat and drained the oil it was 6" high on the dipstick and milky when drained. When I took the remote oil filter off there was straight black oil in it and the lines, leading me to believe the motor hadn't been run. Original story from previous owner was that the water got into the crank ase after winterizing. Motor didn't miss or steam or smoke excessively.
 
Bore scope images of when I first pulled the plugs when I purchased it.
 

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Pulled all of the plugs today and they were bone dry, burning good. Drained the crankcase and there was about 4 gallons in the 5 gallon bucket. Looks like some red fluid in oil and power steering reservoir is bone dry. Found the oil cooler and it also cools power steering also. Compression test next. Could the oil cooler be bad and pumping water in the oil?
 
Jmodified said:
Pulled all of the plugs today and they were bone dry, burning good. Drained the crankcase and there was about 4 gallons in the 5 gallon bucket. Looks like some red fluid in oil and power steering reservoir is bone dry. Found the oil cooler and it also cools power steering also. Compression test next. Could the oil cooler be bad and pumping water in the oil?
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Yes if you have a engine oil cooler certainly can freeze easily. depending on location these can trap water. Certainly if you see red fluid no PS fluid and you have an engine oil/PS cooler combo this is first thing to look at.

I would still pressure test the engine too. If the cooler is freeze damaged then that just shows lack of attention to detail in winterizing. Could have missed other stuff too. If the engine holds pressure that would be a great start.
 
Compression test is between 148-155 all 8 cyl. Opened the drains on exhaust manifolds plenty of clean water came out. Oil cooler is behind port side motor mount on block. Guess that's next and the intake.
 
Dieter said:
Then pressure test the cooling system. A lot of folks use the suck up AF method of winterizing which is likely a cause of more busted engines

If there is debris in there likely didn’t get properly winterized

Michigan motorz has remans and new engines if you need one
Click to expand...
An engine of your vintage is rarely it ever worth major repairs or having a short block or even a long block. If you value your time wrenching or lost boating time, the better use of money almost always favors a new crate or an all up reman. Check out Michigan Motors as per Dieter...
EVERY short block project I seen done by me friends in the last 50 years has ended up with finger pointing when old reused engine parts fail or there are questionable workmanship issues. Can't beat an engine with a warranty!!!
 
Absolutely! Was looking at Mabbco in Tyler TX. After looking at tons of 1 star reviews, decided they are a no go. Had a 305 freeze in Iowa, built a 4 bolt 350, used the 305 heads. Ran for years. Was in a Bayliner 2651 Cierra Sunbridge. Learned the hard way on that one with the winterizing.
 
Jmodified said:
Compression test is between 148-155 all 8 cyl. Opened the drains on exhaust manifolds plenty of clean water came out. Oil cooler is behind port side motor mount on block. Guess that's next and the intake.
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Pressure test the engine before removing the intake. this way you will find out if there is an issue with intake block or heads. if it holds no need to remove.

If the oil cooler is down low like you mention probably this is the cause, as they would have to pull a hose to drain this but may have not done block too.
sandkicker said:
An engine of your vintage is rarely it ever worth major repairs or having a short block or even a long block. If you value your time wrenching or lost boating time, the better use of money almost always favors a new crate or an all up reman. Check out Michigan Motors as per Dieter...
EVERY short block project I seen done by me friends in the last 50 years has ended up with finger pointing when old reused engine parts fail or there are questionable workmanship issues. Can't beat an engine with a warranty!!!
Click to expand...
Absolutely. I 'helped' a friend replace his mower engine. was a cheap briggs and stratton with splash oiling and this guys yard is all hills, rod blew up...

I said no just get a long block head looks ok. Slap on new pressure oiling short block ($350) starts fish pull runs beautifully ...Of course this guy isnt mechanically inclined he mentions its running funny and keeps running it ... it drops a valve ruining the short block. had I just gotten a long block he would still be using it...

When I did my repower in 2015/16 It seemed half the posts about remans were something done wrong in machining and assy... I didnt buy a new bobtail like you did but did get a new GM base engine and have had zero issues with it and I am not babying the throttle!
 
Based on my experience and the work/data you have posted about trouble shooting so far,

1. Possible head gasket failure at water/oil passage. Wont know until heads are pulled.

2. Exhaust manifold or elbow leak allowing water to be pulled into combustion chamber and by rings to oil pan. Remove and separate elbow and manifold, look to see if anything obvious and if not, each has to be pressure checked.

3.****** Many V6, V8 blocks when not winterized properly crack just above lifters in lifter valley. its usually a horizontal crack....
Only way to tell is to pull intake manifold and look.

Thats my take....
 
Ah... we posted at the same time.

#3 was the answer!!!

Now you absolutely know your next steps.

Fyi Facebook market place has lots of engines so thats an option for a plug and play...
 
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