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Pulling my hair out!!

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DeepBlueChartersUK

New member
Hi guys,

I’ve been lurking in the background for a while and have read some very helpful posts… so thank you to all the knowledgeable folk that comment.

My dilemma…..
My catamaran with 2x 2018 BF200 motors is giving me some problems. The port engine runs fine, with no concerns. The starboard is a bit different. It has sometimes struggled to build revs above 3k, but after backing off the throttle to not flood it, the revs do normally build and I can power up. I had a small issue with a smouldering shorting battery cable last week which was repaired (jointed) by an outboard technician.
Ever since then the engine will physically judder and cut out when I’m trying to accelerate at around the 3k mark. If I don’t catch the ignition light flickering in time it’ll alarm and die. If I catch it in time I can throttle back and the engine stays on.
Could this be an earthing problem?

Some relatively experienced guys seem to think so.
Fuel supply is presumed ok, there is a slight kink in my breather hose, but running with the filler cap open didn’t improve it. I haven’t checked fuel filters. There is no water in my separator. The fuel bulb is never rock hard on either engine, but it has never been witnessed to be under vacuum either.

I have videos of my issues but don’t know how to load them up here.

Any help or pointers are more than welcome.
Simon.
 
You have separate fuel tanks for each outboard? Not clear to me from your description. If you have one fuel tank supplying both engines then you must have clean fuel since the other engine runs fine.

Some experts will jump in with more knowledge than me, but earthing/ground issues usually show up when you are starting an outboard, electrical is then under full load, as opposed to when it’s running. Not sure what happens when you lose or have weak battery power or earthing/ground on these newer outboards, on my old car stuff they will continue to run off the alternator power. You may have more than one bad spot in that repaired battery cable?
 
NSDON said:
You have separate fuel tanks for each outboard? Not clear to me from your description. If you have one fuel tank supplying both engines then you must have clean fuel since the other engine runs fine.

Some experts will jump in with more knowledge than me, but earthing/ground issues usually show up when you are starting an outboard, electrical is then under full load, as opposed to when it’s running. Not sure what happens when you lose or have weak battery power or earthing/ground on these newer outboards, on my old car stuff they will continue to run off the alternator power. You may have more than one bad spot in that repaired battery cable?
Click to expand...
 
Hi, thanks for your reply.

I have separate stainless tanks under the deck for each motor. Both are configured the same.
I have zero knowledge of electrics.

I’m a charter operator and it’s a big pain. The boat will sit at 11 knots doing 3k revs all day, but I should be able to get upto mid high 20’s at 5k.

I don’t really have access to anyone that will spend a day fault diagnosing. My local Honda dealer plug you in and don’t see a fault code so leave it alone.
 
So when your powering up, are you gaining rpms slowly building to get up on plane, or are you giving it full throttle then it dies out when it gets above 3k?
 
codycat said:
So when your powering up, are you gaining rpms slowly building to get up on plane, or are you giving it full throttle then it dies out when it gets above 3k?
Click to expand...
Slowly building rpms, and then painfully slow after 3k rpm. Fast or slow, it has the same outcome. I don’t think I matters below 3k rpm.
 
DeepBlueChartersUK said:
Slowly building rpms, and then painfully slow after 3k rpm. Fast or slow, it has the same outcome. I don’t think I matters below 3k rpm.
Click to expand...
Sounds like fuel starvation. I would start with changing fuel filters and cleaning vst. 6yrs is along time to go on a set of filters

When you say water separator, the external one or the one on the engine?
 
Agree with Copycat - sounds like fuel starvation.

First thing to check immediately - remove the cover where the fuel line enters the engine compartment through that big round black grommet and thoroughly inspect that area for corrosion and a pinched fuel line - outside the grommet, within the grommet, and past the grommet. Corrosion will often build up in that area, especially in saltwater, and restrict the fuel line. That is also one of the places where the fuel line gets pinched due to repeated turning of the motor.

Secondly, change the high-pressure fuel filter. The high-pressure fuel filter should be changed annually or every 100 hours, whichever comes first. That HP fuel filter is responsible for an inordinate number of performance problems on the BF 200/225.

If you have external fuel/water separators (you should) , change the filters.

Drain the VST, completely. Instructions are in the owner's manual.

With a friend, remove the engine cover and run it out on the water. When the engine starts to bog down, observe the fuel level in the bowls for the onboard fuel-water separator and the low-pressure fuel filter. They both should be at least 1/4 full.

If you got an alarm, the EPROM will typically retain it until it is cleared. I have attached the procedure for pulling and clearing fault codes and what the fault codes mean. This only works if you have the 4-light key switch - oil pressure, overheat, alternator, and PGM-FI (MIL) light.
 

Attachments

  • Procedure for Getting Fault Codes.pdf
    189.6 KB · Views: 66
  • MIL Fault Codes Scanned.pdf
    85.1 KB · Views: 123
Disclaimer: I am not a marine mechanic - simply the owner of a 2007 BF 225 who does my own maintenance and repair.
 
codycat said:
Sounds like fuel starvation. I would start with changing fuel filters and cleaning vst. 6yrs is along time to go on a set of filters

When you say water separator, the external one or the one on the engine?
Click to expand...
New (18 months) External water separators. Filters were all done (150hrs ago), along with new fuel lines, throttle cables, cam belts, steering hoses when I purchased the boat second hand last winter.
 
There have been many reports on this forum where the HP fuel filter on the BF 200/225 began to fail after 100 hours. Read my post again.
 
DeepBlueChartersUK said:
New (18 months) External water separators. Filters were all done (150hrs ago), along with new fuel lines, throttle cables, cam belts, steering hoses when I purchased the boat second hand last winter.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd still do a complete filter change. I know some say drain the vst, but I'd personally take it off and clean it out. Checking hp fuel pump screen. If it wasn't a new to you boat, I'd drain it.

Also check float and needle for proper operation.

Order new rubbers seals for everything before you disassemble vst.
 
chawk_man said:
Agree with Copycat - sounds like fuel starvation.

First thing to check immediately - remove the cover where the fuel line enters the engine compartment through that big round black grommet and thoroughly inspect that area for corrosion and a pinched fuel line - outside the grommet, within the grommet, and past the grommet. Corrosion will often build up in that area, especially in saltwater, and restrict the fuel line. That is also one of the places where the fuel line gets pinched due to repeated turning of the motor.

Secondly, change the high-pressure fuel filter. The high-pressure fuel filter should be changed annually or every 100 hours, whichever comes first. That HP fuel filter is responsible for an inordinate number of performance problems on the BF 200/225.

If you have external fuel/water separators (you should) , change the filters.

Drain the VST, completely. Instructions are in the owner's manual.

With a friend, remove the engine cover and run it out on the water. When the engine starts to bog down, observe the fuel level in the bowls for the onboard fuel-water separator and the low-pressure fuel filter. They both should be at least 1/4 full.

If you got an alarm, the EPROM will typically retain it until it is cleared. I have attached the procedure for pulling and clearing fault codes and what the fault codes mean. This only works if you have the 4-light key switch - oil pressure, overheat, alternator, and PGM-FI (MIL) light.
Click to expand...
You always take the time to write in-depth replies to calls for help, it’s really appreciated.

Fuel starvation makes sense to me, but could it be that much of a coincidence that this started the day after my battery lead set itself alight? The grommet was removed when the issue happened last week, it’s damaged so a new one is on order. In the meantime, the cables and fuel line are taped temporarily up to stop rubbing. I made sure to consider the position of the fuel line so as not to pinch it etc.
I will go through all you said above with my competent mate this weekend.
There may be an argument to pull a new solid (no joins) battery cable from the breaker soon too.
 
chawk_man said:
Agree with Copycat - sounds like fuel starvation.

First thing to check immediately - remove the cover where the fuel line enters the engine compartment through that big round black grommet and thoroughly inspect that area for corrosion and a pinched fuel line - outside the grommet, within the grommet, and past the grommet. Corrosion will often build up in that area, especially in saltwater, and restrict the fuel line. That is also one of the places where the fuel line gets pinched due to repeated turning of the motor.

Secondly, change the high-pressure fuel filter. The high-pressure fuel filter should be changed annually or every 100 hours, whichever comes first. That HP fuel filter is responsible for an inordinate number of performance problems on the BF 200/225.

If you have external fuel/water separators (you should) , change the filters.

Drain the VST, completely. Instructions are in the owner's manual.

With a friend, remove the engine cover and run it out on the water. When the engine starts to bog down, observe the fuel level in the bowls for the onboard fuel-water separator and the low-pressure fuel filter. They both should be at least 1/4 full.

If you got an alarm, the EPROM will typically retain it until it is cleared. I have attached the procedure for pulling and clearing fault codes and what the fault codes mean. This only works if you have the 4-light key switch - oil pressure, overheat, alternator, and PGM-FI (MIL) light.
Click to expand...
Here I demonstrate the flickering and saving it from stalling - at the end of the video I let it stall….

 
I'm wondering if the heat from that smoldering battery cable damaged the fuel line?
As chawk_man points out, that grommet is a pinch point so it's possible that the line was damaged previously but heat from that occurance damaged it even more.

I have seen fuel and hydraulic lines deamination internally and be restricted while, on the outside, they can look perfectly OK.

If you follow his advice in post #8 and run it on the water with cover off, you might try manipulating the line in that area to see if it makes a difference/improvement.

Just an idea...

Good luck.
 
You said could this be an earthing problem. Had power cable chaffed thru could see corroded wire and cable was stiff in some areas near the corrosion. It wouldn't start unless two giant batteries were connected and the cables would heat up after splicing out the corrosion. SO check your cable near the repair see if its stiff either side and if it gets warm. if warm there is resistance corrosion and you're better off replacing the cable. Also I worked on Mercury 150 with 52 hours the alternator went out and rpms wouldn't rev up, once battery fully ran down could only get idle from the engine no matter how far you pushed the throttle.

Limited to 3000 rpm, have your checked your throttle cables? they are supposed to be strung thru the guides on the engine, I have seen on 2019 Honda 225 a cable came out of guide on the top cover and owner couldn't get it to full throttle. it was not moving the throttle body arm to the stop. At full throttle I could still move it more to the stop by hand. I then put cables back in the guide, adjusted linkage cables, and put in full forward and it was now at the throttle body stop.
 
What do the plugs look like, if any are carboned up do a compression test on those cylinders. You have a good parts engine, you can start by swapping over the easy stuff first like moving over all the coils, injectors or swap vapor separator's. These engines can be difficult to troubleshoot unless your an extremely experienced Honda Tech, I'd like to find one of those.
 
Hook it up to a small portable fuel tank and hose.----Hook up a timing light 1 cylinder at a time and see if there is steady spark on all cylinders.
 
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