Difficulty starting engines

[Kirdud]

Good day, Captains!
I have 2 petrol Volvo Penta 4.3 OSI-E on board. Maybe someone can advise which parts are responsible for the second and subsequent engine starts. When the engines are cold, they start well, but once they’re warm, the next starts are not as smooth. I need to add a little throttle and crank the starter longer before the engine runs. Thank you in advance!

 

[AllDodge]

Both engines have the same problem, correct? One of them isn't better than the other?

 

[Kirdud]

Both engines have the same problem, correct? One of them isn't better than the other?

Sometimes yes, sometimes not. It could be the port engine, and next start it could be the starboard engine.

 

[AllDodge]

In that case I'm thinking electrical. Could have a loose or bad connection causing to much voltage drop. The motors get more fuel when cold and contacts shrink, as it heats up they expand. I would look on the ground side first

 

[Kirdud]

In that case I'm thinking electrical. Could have a loose or bad connection causing to much voltage drop. The motors get more fuel when cold and contacts shrink, as it heats up they expand. I would look on the ground side first

Thank you! Will do! That’s true, I do have an issue with the electrical part. The port side engine, when I try to start it, just makes a “click click” sound, and only after several attempts does it start. However, it rotates very slowly. It seems like the battery might be low, but according to the voltmeter, the battery is fine. It could be wire corrosion, but I don’t think that would affect the engine starting when I need to add throttle. I’ve already involved an electrician, I just need to wait for him to find time to come.

 

[AllDodge]

I do have an issue with the electrical part. The port side engine, when I try to start it, just makes a “click click” sound, and only after several attempts does it start. However, it rotates very slowly.

Corroded Bat cables, Bat switch connections can cause this
The advancing of the throttle might just be coincidental.

 

[Kirdud]

Corroded Bat cables, Bat switch connections can cause this
The advancing of the throttle might just be coincidental.

My mechanic told me that he has similar engines from Mercruiser and he is expecting the same problem, and that nothing can be done, sometimes requiring additional throttle. But to be honest, I don’t believe that this is the correct way for an injector engine to operate.

 

[jimn]

What model year?

Check for codes, especially pertaining to the ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor on the Master engine. When dual engines are used, they operate in a Master/Slave configuration (their terminology, not mine). If the only thing you need to do to get them/it to start is opening the throttle, it's likely the ECT that reports to the ECM, telling it that the engine is cold and that causes it to deliver too much fuel. The ECT resistance should be around 1800 Ohms at 80 degrees F. If it's significantly higher, it's faulty.

 

[Kirdud]

What model year?

Check for codes, especially pertaining to the ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor on the Master engine. When dual engines are used, they operate in a Master/Slave configuration (their terminology, not mine). If the only thing you need to do to get them/it to start is opening the throttle, it's likely the ECT that reports to the ECM, telling it that the engine is cold and that causes it to deliver too much fuel. The ECT resistance should be around 1800 Ohms at 80 degrees F. If it's significantly higher, it's faulty.

2005 y.o. I don’t have a chance to read the codes. Mechanics told me there is nothing to read on these engines.

 

[jimn]

2005 y.o. I don’t have a chance to read the codes. Mechanics told me there is nothing to read on these engines.

So, it's not fuel injected? OK, what is the air temperature? Do you ventilate the engine compartment before re-starting? If not, try doing that or leave the engine cover open for a few minutes before starting, to allow the area to cool. Could it be vapor lock? Is the carburetor dripping fuel into the intake?

Try opening the throttle fully and if it starts sooner, it's flooding. Obviously, go back to idle as soon as it starts.

How old are the plugs, wires, etc? Did you check the flame arrestor? It may need to be cleaned.

 

[Kirdud]

So, it's not fuel injected? OK, what is the air temperature? Do you ventilate the engine compartment before re-starting? If not, try doing that or leave the engine cover open for a few minutes before starting, to allow the area to cool. Could it be vapor lock? Is the carburetor dripping fuel into the intake?

Try opening the throttle fully and if it starts sooner, it's flooding. Obviously, go back to idle as soon as it starts.

How old are the plugs, wires, etc? Did you check the flame arrestor? It may need to be cleaned.

Currently, the air temperature outside is around +35°C. Sometimes I start with the ventilation running, and sometimes not – the same issue occurs. Recently, I changed the plugs, wires, distributor cap, and rotor. The injectors were also cleaned on a test stand. No, I have never cleaned the flame arrestor, but I will do that this weekend.

 

[jimn]

Currently, the air temperature outside is around +35°C. Sometimes I start with the ventilation running, and sometimes not – the same issue occurs. Recently, I changed the plugs, wires, distributor cap, and rotor. The injectors were also cleaned on a test stand. No, I have never cleaned the flame arrestor, but I will do that this weekend.

If it's injected, it has an engine controller, AKA ECM or ECU. That means it has a way to use diagnostic equipment. Volvo Penta used Delphi MEFI ECMs in the past, not sure what they use now. If they still use something similar, it does have a way to check for codes- how else would they make diagnostics easier/keep people on the water, rather than having boats unusable?

Please post the serial number. V-P said it has an ECM if it's injected.

 

[racerone]

What batteries?----How old are they?----Have you had them load tested ?

 

[Kirdud]

If it's injected, it has an engine controller, AKA ECM or ECU. That means it has a way to use diagnostic equipment. Volvo Penta used Delphi MEFI ECMs in the past, not sure what they use now. If they still use something similar, it does have a way to check for codes- how else would they make diagnostics easier/keep people on the water, rather than having boats unusable?

Please post the serial number. V-P said it has an ECM if it's injected.

4012156280 & 4012156281

 

[Kirdud]

What batteries?----How old are they?----Have you had them load tested ?

I replaced both batteries two years ago.

 

[AllDodge]

My mechanic told me that he has similar engines from Mercruiser and he is expecting the same problem, and that nothing can be done, sometimes requiring additional throttle. But to be honest, I don’t believe that this is the correct way for an injector engine to operate.

You are correct

2005 y.o. I don’t have a chance to read the codes. Mechanics told me there is nothing to read on these engines.

You need a "real" boat Mechanic, not someone who works on boats without the proper tools and knowledge

If you find those bad connections I'm pretty sure you will have fixed most the problem

 

[jimn]

4012156280 & 4012156281

In case you don't have an operator's manual, I have posted a link (since the file is too large to attach). It includes troubleshooting info, as well.

file:///C:/Users/USER/Downloads/7744286.pdf

The fuse block should have a fuse specifically for the injectors and ECM- you might also remove the plastic cover from the top of the engine and post a photo- it will be easy to tell what it has for injectors and the manual has several models and yours is included.

I have serviced some Volvo Penta marine engines and the more recent ones were solid and seemed well-built.

A fuel injected engine should start easily without advancing the throttle. As I posted, one fairly common cause for the need to open the throttle is a bad ECT sensor. Aside from that, there aren't many reasons to do this.

Does the exhaust smell strongly of petrol? That's an indication of the engine running rich.

If you live in a place where the temperature drops below freezing for long periods, I would look for a painted plug on the front of the intake manifold that has a square head- if this isn't removed, water can remain after draining the block and cooling system, causing cracking due to the water expanding. This was pointed out to me by the shop manager when I was about to winterize a V-P engine for the first time in years- I had never heard about that plug and it requires a certain socket, but it needs to be removed. It shouldn't be difficult to find- IIRC, it's a 5/8" 8 point socket.

Also, some tricks are involved in replacing the impeller and OEM parts should be used (inclucing the gaskets and packet of Glycerine, for lubricating the rubber).

 

[Kirdud]

You are correct

You need a "real" boat Mechanic, not someone who works on boats without the proper tools and knowledge

If you find those bad connections I'm pretty sure you will have fixed most the problem

Yes, I know that a good mechanic could be time and money saver, but in Cyprus it’s a real challenge, even for VP dealers. So, for the most part, boaters unfortunately have to solve issues by themselves.

 

[Kirdud]

In case you don't have an operator's manual, I have posted a link (since the file is too large to attach). It includes troubleshooting info, as well.

file:///C:/Users/USER/Downloads/7744286.pdf

The fuse block should have a fuse specifically for the injectors and ECM- you might also remove the plastic cover from the top of the engine and post a photo- it will be easy to tell what it has for injectors and the manual has several models and yours is included.

I have serviced some Volvo Penta marine engines and the more recent ones were solid and seemed well-built.

A fuel injected engine should start easily without advancing the throttle. As I posted, one fairly common cause for the need to open the throttle is a bad ECT sensor. Aside from that, there aren't many reasons to do this.

Does the exhaust smell strongly of petrol? That's an indication of the engine running rich.

If you live in a place where the temperature drops below freezing for long periods, I would look for a painted plug on the front of the intake manifold that has a square head- if this isn't removed, water can remain after draining the block and cooling system, causing cracking due to the water expanding. This was pointed out to me by the shop manager when I was about to winterize a V-P engine for the first time in years- I had never heard about that plug and it requires a certain socket, but it needs to be removed. It shouldn't be difficult to find- IIRC, it's a 5/8" 8 point socket.

Also, some tricks are involved in replacing the impeller and OEM parts should be used (inclucing the gaskets and packet of Glycerine, for lubricating the rubber).

Sorry, the link is broken. What is the reason to check the fuse related to injectors? Some times the exhaust smells, but not always. I live in climate when during the winter the temperature will be not less then 10 degree (Cyprus), so there is no reason

 

[jimn]

Sorry, the link is broken. What is the reason to check the fuse related to injectors? Some times the exhaust smells, but not always. I live in climate when during the winter the temperature will be not less then 10 degree (Cyprus), so there is no reason

I got it from the North American link and it's not letting me attach the pdf- I split it because the site indicated that it was too large as one attachment.

 

[Kirdud]

I got it from the North American link and it's not letting me attach the pdf- I split it because the site indicated that it was too large as one attachment.

It seems the issue is that access wasn’t provided.

 

[jimn]

It seems the issue is that access wasn’t provided.

I checked Ebay and the workshop manual is available (not expensive)- I searched using Volvo Penta 4.30Si service manual and it covers Volvo Penta 4.3 5.0 5.7 8.1 Service Manual | GXi OSi Gi Gil GXil SXi, available on CD or USB. It would be a good resource to have.

 

[Kirdud]

I checked Ebay and the workshop manual is available (not expensive)- I searched using Volvo Penta 4.30Si service manual and it covers Volvo Penta 4.3 5.0 5.7 8.1 Service Manual | GXi OSi Gi Gil GXil SXi, available on CD or USB. It would be a good resource to have.

For me, it will be expensive. For example, I order a gauge from the US Ebay for about 30 EUR, but here it costs me around 150 EUR. It’s an island, so what can we do? If it’s possible to share it somehow through file exchanges, I would be grateful for your help.

 

[makomark]

Based on the year and the serial number provided, its a MPI equipped engine...and its highly likely to have a MEFI-4 ECU, so there should be plenty of data to scan...

Agree with the earlier posts suggesting cleaning up all of the battery cables...the ECU is 'happy' with a good clean power source.

 

[jimn]

For me, it will be expensive. For example, I order a gauge from the US Ebay for about 30 EUR, but here it costs me around 150 EUR. It’s an island, so what can we do? If it’s possible to share it somehow through file exchanges, I would be grateful for your help.

That can be purchased as a download, IIRC.