Problems with a 1977 Johnson 85 HP Tilt/Trim Unit

[sebkom]

Hey all, I have been reading forums and googling for quite some time now and I haven't found a really good piece of advice yet. Therefore I thought I'd give it a try here.

I have a 1977 Johnson V4 85 HP Outboard on my boat and my tilt/trimm unit isn't working anymore. Last October, when I put the boat in the dry storage, it worked just fine.

Now, preparing the boat for the summer, I wanted to use the tilt/trim again and it doesn't work anymore. Or let me be more precise:

- When I tap the switch for the outboard to go downwards, I hear the tilt/trim motor working, but from that I see, the motor simply goes downwards by gravity (for the lack of a better explanation). The two hydraulic rods come out at some point and the outboards downwards motion stops. So in my opinion the tilt/trimm motor actually isn't doing any work
- when I tap the switch for the outboard to go upwards, the motor doesn't even make a sound (and of course the outboard doesn't move)
- I already released the pressure via the screw on the side of the tilt/trim motor, in order to push the outboard up manually. a bit of fluid comes out every time I do this.
- I also changed the relay (the 1977 still has an external relay/solenoid - I guess for starting the motor and using the tilt/trim), but nothing changed.
- the battery is fully charged

As the tilt/trim motor seems to still function (hence the sound of the motor), I have two things in mind to do next:

- Check all cables and the switch in order to check, that it isn't the switch that is broken
- fill up the tilt/trim fluid

Do you guys have any other advice, what I can do to check, where the problem is? Thanks for your help.

 

[racerone]

Try and run the trim motor directly from the battery.-----Blue to + and black to - ve and trim should go up.

 

[racerone]

There is a solenoid for starting the outboard motor.----There is a separate box with a solenoid for the trim tilt.---Should be in a box inside the transom.----That is if it has the original 77 set-up.----Picture / description of your system is needed.

 

[sebkom]

There is a solenoid for starting the outboard motor.----There is a separate box with a solenoid for the trim tilt.---Should be in a box inside the transom.----That is if it has the original 77 set-up.----Picture / description of your system is needed.

Yeah, that is the setup. I'll try the blue to +, black to - method tonite.

 

[sebkom]

so, quick update:

Went directly to the battery between the outboard and solenoid. Worked for up and down. (Blue and green)

Went directly to the battery between solenoid and switch, only down (green) worked. Blue/Up didn’t to anything.

So I guess the solenoid is the problem, right?

Filled up the tilt/trim fluid also, just to be sure that it wasn’t that.

 

[sebkom]

And another update: could wait, so I tried the new solenoid this evening. Nothing. Green (between solenoid and switch) works, when directly connected to the battery. Blue does nothing between solenoid and switch.

Maybe a wiring issue on the solenoid or the new solenoid is also messed up.

Can I somehow feat the solenoid?

 

[sebkom]

Bought another solenoid - finally it works and goes up and down.

Now the next problem: because the seal of the screw to manually lift the trim (that one on the side of the tilt/trim unit) is broken, the fluid is dripping out the whole time. I probably unscrewed it once to often.

I can’t get the screw out - it only turns a few times… I’ve seen that it has some kind of ring around it.

Any idea on how to get a new seal/gasket behind that screw?

 

[timguy]

Outward pressure while turning to loosen. Then tap threads to next size that will work. Vacuum out any filings. Provide correct bolt/screw in stainless or brass with proper fitting washer to seal. All parts likely available at you local hardware store.

 

[sebkom]

got the relief screw out and a new seal in. Relief screw now is not leaking anymore.

Now motor makes sounds in both directions, but doesn’t lift the motor. Downwards seems to be more gravity than tilt/trim motor.

Tried filling new fluid until it comes running out. Still no upward or downward motion.

 

[timguy]

How much fluid did you get inside? Sounds like air needs to bleed out? Try operating with screw loosened to allow air to escape. Was there any sign of moisture in the old fluid that was there during storage.... A milky texture?

 

[sebkom]

No, just clean fluid, not milky at all.

I’ll try getting in some more tomorrow. I’d say I put in a quarter bottle (250 ml).

 

[sebkom]

I think that I am getting no seal-off for the power trim. At least it seems like it.

What I did: I closed the manual release valve (which I fitted with first one, the two seals - no idea, if that is right, can’t find a foto of that screw with a seal at all), then I pump in some fluid (which I have now done several times, even tilting the boat slightly with the trailer, so that more stays in). Nothing comes out of the release valve, this is completely dry. Still I can move the motor up by hand. Also it still “falls” down, when I let go of it.

Lastly the two pistons that hold it in the end (at the bottom of the unit, no idea what to call them) don’t go back in but stay out, even if I try to trim the motor.

This is really frustrating right now. I have no clue what could be wrong.

Maybe someone has an idea.

 

[racerone]

Post a picture of the 2 pistons / cylinders that you speak of.-----There may be issues with check valves in the hydraulic valve body.

 

[sebkom]

Here a photo of the pistons - yes I know they look messed up… but they worked a few days ago.

And two photos of the relief valve. I put on a seal at the top, the second one I took off again, as I thought that the screw won’t go in deep enough.

 

[racerone]

Those are the trim cylinders.------Often they do not move until the tilt cylinder is all the way down.

 

[sebkom]

Yeah, and funnily enough the went all the way in a few days ago without a problem.

I will try to get more power trim fluid in the cylinders over the next days. Maybe that helps.

Does the fluid spread through the cylinders if I lower and raise the motor manually?