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91’ OMC 5.0 motor w/ 4.3 stern. Spun Gimble.

R

rvaughnp

New member
Ok… short story…
I purchased this Four Winns Candia 190 with the above mention motor/outdrive.
It would not go into reverse. I pulled the stern drive off. Found the brass drive cable sleeve cracked and replaced. Also… the Gimble bearing (GB) was laying in the boot.

Sticking with the GB issue… I replaced the GB. Froze it for 4 hrs and used the install tool to install. What a breeze by freezing by the way!
Put everything back together. The next morning, checked fluids in lower and upper case. Ran at the house at least 30-45 mins and all seemed to be working great.
Half hr on the lake and it locked up.
I first thought motor. Pulled SD and realized it was the SD. The axle shaft would not spin.
Pulled the upper cap and no fluid was in there.
Pulled it apart and found the bearing below the upper gear connecting to the lower unit to be blown out.

Ok… additionally… I looked in the transom and found the GB spun from the 3 o’clock install position to now sitting at 7 o’clock.

Question…. With the lower bearing seizing up can that cause the GB to spin in place?
Or, being I found the original GB loose when I first opened it, does that say there is an issue with the race the GB sits in?

If someone with experience thinks I should replace the GB again and repair the lower bearing and what ever oring allowed the fluid to empty out… I’d moved forward with the repairs.
The GB is my main concern as I don’t want to make the repair in the LU, replace the GB, put it all back together only to have the GB spinning internally and me not know it.
I could always pull the SD for inspection, but do not want to have to pull and reset the GB every year.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
rvaughnp said:
The GB is my main concern as I don’t want to make the repair in the LU, replace the GB, put it all back together only to have the GB spinning internally and me not know it.
Click to expand...
Ayuh,.... The gimble bearing needs a resistance fit,.... It needs to be driven in,.....
Is the transom housing wallowed out,..??
 
bondo said:
Ayuh,.... The gimble bearing needs a resistance fit,.... It needs to be driven in,.....
Is the transom housing wallowed out,..??
Click to expand...
Yeah… I did that. I jut froze it to make it easier. Ince I remove it I may try to re-insert it without freezing it to see what it does.

Wish there was a ID measurement I could check against.

I’m going to pull it today and see a bit more as to what’s going on.
I’m hoping it was just the LU locking up that spun it.
Regardless… going to reset it and take boat out, pull the LU again and see what it’s doing.
At the end of the day… I’ll just degrease it every time I set it.
Wish they made a micro-sleeve for it!

I thought about drill 1/8” pins into the the two of them. Maybe 3.
That’s my last resort. If it’s F’d up… drilling pins can’t make it any worse! lol


Thanks for the reply.
 
Was the outdrive full of gear oil before using? They take about 2 qts. If filled improperly it will definitely cause the upper gears to seize up & self destruct. Can’t say your gimble bearing did what it did though. Only thing I can think of is if the engine alignment was way off. I’ve had one of these for over 20 years with minimal problems.
 
In my opinion, the outdrive failing should not cause the gimbal bearing issue.

If I understand you correctly:
1) You bought the boat & gimbal bearing was failed? YES/NO
2) Bearing was laying in the bellows loose when you pulled the drive? YES/NO
3) Are we talking about the complete bearing assy including the aluminum housing & corrugated tolerance ring OR just the steel bearing bearing portion?
4) Did you buy an OEM OMC/BRP Bearing assy 3853807, Sierra 18-2100 or if you could find 1 (many years NLA), a Mercruiser 30-60794A4. FYI, the Mercruiser # has been replaced with a non greaseable unit that I avoid installing on boats with the greaseable housing. In other words, pre Alpha gen2 boats & Cobra boats.
IF YOU BOUGHT ANY OTHER BRAND AMAZON/CHINEESIUM BEARING THAT IS MOST LIKELY YOUR PROBLEM!
It is best to replace the bearing assy complete & not to reuse the aluminum housing & tolerance ring.

I have seen a failed bearing (most likely from lack of greasing & I assume water in the bellows) destroy the entire transom plate assy once (Cobra but could happen to Mercruiser also).

BTW, Louc is probably the "Go To Guy" for Cobra issues. But since Cobra & Mercruiser used the same bearing, failure issues stem from the same causes. Like he said the alignment could be way off. Did you check the alignment with the tool? YES/NO
 
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Ok… not sure what happened to my previous post????

Pulled the GB and found the bearing “spun but the center “corrugated race” piece stayed in the same spot.

Going to run it and see what happens.

When re-installing it… 3 wacks with a 5# hammer.

I may plan on drilling 3-4 1/16 or 1/8” dowels into where they meet.
If it’s already messed up.. I can’t make it any worse. We’ll see.
 
louc said:
Was the outdrive full of gear oil before using? They take about 2 qts. If filled improperly it will definitely cause the upper gears to seize up & self destruct. Can’t say your gimble bearing did what it did though. Only thing I can think of is if the engine alignment was way off. I’ve had one of these for over 20 years with minimal problems.
Click to expand...
Yes, totally full. When I tested at the house and when we hit the water.

After pulling it apart… some backyard mech got all the way down the lowest o-ring but instead of replacing them he applied silicone!!!!!
I’m sure that’s what allowed the oil to escape.

Have since relaxed all o-rings.
 
Droid said:
In my opinion, the outdrive failing should not cause the gimbal bearing issue.

If I understand you correctly:
1) You bought the boat & gimbal bearing was failed? YES/NO
2) Bearing was laying in the bellows loose when you pulled the drive? YES/NO
3) Are we talking about the complete bearing assy including the aluminum housing & corrugated tolerance ring OR just the steel bearing bearing portion?
4) Did you buy an OEM OMC/BRP Bearing assy 3853807, Sierra 18-2100 or if you could find 1 (many years NLA), a Mercruiser 30-60794A4. FYI, the Mercruiser # has been replaced with a non greaseable unit that I avoid installing on boats with the greaseable housing. In other words, pre Alpha gen2 boats & Cobra boats.
IF YOU BOUGHT ANY OTHER BRAND AMAZON/CHINEESIUM BEARING THAT IS MOST LIKELY YOUR PROBLEM!
It is best to replace the bearing assy complete & not to reuse the aluminum housing & tolerance ring.

I have seen a failed bearing (most likely from lack of greasing & I assume water in the bellows) destroy the entire transom plate assy once (Cobra but could happen to Mercruiser also).

BTW, Louc is probably the "Go To Guy" for Cobra issues. But since Cobra & Mercruiser used the same bearing, failure issues stem from the same causes. Like he said the alignment could be way off. Did you check the alignment with the tool? YES/NO
Click to expand...
1) Yes.
2) No. It was laying on the shaft. As I pulled the SD out, it dropped into the bellow.
So… technically, it came out or was never installed correctly from previous owner(s).
Just a note as to what I found from pulling the SD apart… As mentioned in another post… some backyard mech pulled the SD completely apart and instead of replacing o-rings… applied silicone instead.
3) the whole piece, tolerance ring as well.
- maybe you have some info about the beating and tolerance ring….
- I have pulled the bearing and noticed the tolerance ring stayed in place but the bearing did spin as mentioned.
The bearing only has the two outer ridges to hold it in place and maybe the tolerance ring.
4) I did purchase the Mercruiser 30-60794A4.
… I did use an alignment too and allowed the spline end to seat approx 2” inside before making the set point of the beating “plate”.

*** as I run my finger inside where the bearing sits… it is not smooth. It feels like the Torrance ring made grooves at some point.

Anyhow… like I mentioned earlier… I may choose to drill 3-4 pins and see what that does.
If it’s a lost case and the whole transom needs replaced… I can’t hurt it.
I already have a another SD as a donor, so…
That’s a last straw option though.
 
rvaughnp said:
Ok… not sure what happened to my previous post????

Pulled the GB and found the bearing “spun but the center “corrugated race” piece stayed in the same spot.

Going to run it and see what happens.

When re-installing it… 3 wacks with a 5# hammer.

I may plan on drilling 3-4 1/16 or 1/8” dowels into where they meet.
If it’s already messed up.. I can’t make it any worse. We’ll see.
Click to expand...
"Corrugated race"?
The steel bearing has a "rounded" outer . Imagine a 1" think slice of a ball.
The inside of the aluminum housing has the matching but reversed "rounded" inside. During operation, the bearing floats in this aluminum housing as the transom & motor mounts flex. The bearing & aluminum housing are a matched set to give proper fit & drag from rotation.
Look at the aluminum housing & you will see 2 "key hole" slots. These are for assembly at the bearing factory. You will also see a machined outer surface where the tolerance ring sits. Rotating the tolerance ring will expose an approx 1/4" diameter hole that needs to be lined up with the grease fitting upon installation. The gap in the tolerance ring must align with the hole & the grease fitting or it can't be greased. Now if you bought an non greaseable bearing this step is not applicable.
When installing the bearing you must be sure the tolerance ring stays seated in the groove as it begins to install. If not, it will become wedged between the parts & could cause a crack if continued to be pounded in.
As for installing the assembly, there is a tool that spreads the driving force out onto the aluminum housing & not just the bearing center race as will happen if you drive it in with just the alignment tool.

Jump back up to the subject of the "key hole" slots:
Early Mercruiser factory installation placed the slots aft or visible as you look into the bellows. People used to swivel the bearing out & replace just the bearing as it was easier. Like I said above, they are a matched set from the bearing factory. Swapping out just the bearing could result in a too loose or too tight fit. To resolve the issue, Mercruiser reversed the installation so the assembly had to be removed & replaced. I realize you have a Cobra but since the bearing is the same part number, the swivel the bearing out could in theory happen. I don't know how OMC installed at the factory level. Functionally it makes no difference but the "key holes" forward was to inhibit after the fact tampering.
 
1780179784205.jpeg
 
Tolerance ring clearly seen in this picture. Fits loosely between the 2 shoulders of the aluminum housing. It is part of the bearing assy & available separately. Mercury P/N 61075.
You found an old NLA bearing, was it missing?
1780180106034.jpeg
 
i think we are talking about the same thing. The “corrugated ring” is the tolerance ring. I was unsure of its name.
When I installed the bearing with the correct install tool you mentioned, the 1/4” bearing grease hole was aligned to the grease insert hole and the tolerance ring was also aligned/gaped to see the bearing hole before installation. I drew a line from the grease sert hole out to the edge and the marked the alMinim housing shoulder where the beating grease hole was.

My issue now is that the bearing is coming out of the race.
I installed the second SD I have, which the shaft was a little rusty to which the SD would not seat. Upon pulling it back out… the GB came with it.

So now my issue is the GB is not staying inside the race.

Can you explain whether it’s the aluminum outter bearing housing or the tolerance ring that is supposed to keep that bearing in the transom race?
Or, is it supposed to float as you mentioned and it coming out on its own is kinda normal?

Thanks for your replies.
 
Droid….
Is the tolerance ring supposed to:
- connect the transom race and the outter bearing housing together?
If that’s true then two things follow that…
1) the outter bearing housing stays in place so that the beating grease hole stay line up. 2) the tolerance ring stays in place to allow grease to flow into the bearing.
 
Ok, I'm old & started working on a 1968 Mercruiser model in 1979.
FYI, 60s & early 70s Mercruiser bearings were different, used a nylon housing, brass shims & a snap ring. I'll find a picture.....
 
Early Mercruiser bearing. I post this as it shows the curved outer race to help you visualize what your similar but slightly larger outer diameter bearing looks like when removed from the aluminum carrier.
Early bearing nylon carrier below. This is where you have the aluminum carrier.
1780183776699.jpeg
 
Go back to post #11 above. Your bearing comes out of box as an assembly. You state the tolerance ring was lined up with the hole. So you are aware how easily it goes on & off. But should not be reused.

The tolerance ring helps keep the aluminum housing in place in the transom plate. The factory mating keeps the bearing from rotating in the aluminum housing.

The bearing can't just "come out". It would need to be rotated 90 degrees (as in 90 degrees to the transom) then slipped out thru the "key hole" slots. This picture shows the "key hole" slots. Is your aluminum housing broken?
1780184636128.jpeg
 
When I say the “bearing” came out I meant the whole assembly eg GB… inner bearing, outter bearing housing and the tolerance ring as a whole.
The GB is coming out without much effort.

So, it is my understanding that the tolerance ring keeps the outter bearing casing connected to the transom bearing race.

Thanks for that.
 
The GB I am using is new.

I went ahead and used a center punch and punched 4 small punches in each of raised sections of the tolerance ring.
Hoping that will “fill in” the gap of the transom race.

I’ll post a pic and update in a couple weeks.

I am marking the outer bearing race grease hole to the outer grease sert hole.

I see if it slips if the marks are off as it did last time I took it out.

Here’s to hoping.
 
rvaughnp said:
The GB I am using is new.

I went ahead and used a center punch and punched 4 small punches in each of raised sections of the tolerance ring.
Hoping that will “fill in” the gap of the transom race.

I’ll post a pic and update in a couple weeks.

I am marking the outer bearing race grease hole to the outer grease sert hole.

I see if it slips if the marks are off as it did last time I took it out.

Here’s to hoping.
Click to expand...
Ayuh,..... If it's slipping in the transom housing, do the prick punch into the transom housing, so the tolerance ring is tight in the housing,....
No need for a speedsleeve,....
 
bondo said:
Ayuh,..... If it's slipping in the transom housing, do the prick punch into the transom housing, so the tolerance ring is tight in the housing,....
No need for a speedsleeve,....
Click to expand...
What’s a “speed sleeve”?
I presume that’s like a micro sleeve one would use on a crank to timing cover seal.

That’s what I would ultimately want.
Wanting to get the boat out so trying this.

Do you have a part # for the speed sleeve? I just tried searching one and couldn’t.
Thanks
 
Spent a few hours on the water.
Pulled upper gear case cover and only lost about 1/2” of gear oil.

Will pull the SD this coming weekend and update wether it stayed in place or spun…
 
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