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Tclark

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Help....2001 5.0L EFI engine with approx. 250 hrs on engine. Always ran mint, no real engine issues over the last 5 yrs I have owned. Always winterize correctly (live on Long Island). This yr I replaced all exhaust manifolds, spacers, and risers (elbows) before putting in water this season. During my first run i noticed that my exhaust seemed louder than usual, hmmmm, also I noticed that at wake speed, less than 5 knots I had a lot of turbulence coming out the drive, water very "rough.choppy, instead of smooth flowing and sound..Engine still sounded great. All temps good. Next day I had same issue, opened up, temps good no issues other than at no wake speed still loud exhaust and turbulent water behind drive. (drive was down). Long story short I discovered water in my oil to the point it seeped out of dip stick tube. I have NO external block leaking, internal don't know....Can this be a exhaust manifold/spacer/riser issue?...The turbulance and loud exhaust is throwing me for a loop. I have no done a pressure test yet of the block
 
Tclark said:
Help....2001 5.0L EFI engine with approx. 250 hrs on engine. Always ran mint, no real engine issues over the last 5 yrs I have owned. Always winterize correctly (live on Long Island). This yr I replaced all exhaust manifolds, spacers, and risers (elbows) before putting in water this season. During my first run i noticed that my exhaust seemed louder than usual, hmmmm, also I noticed that at wake speed, less than 5 knots I had a lot of turbulence coming out the drive, water very "rough.choppy, instead of smooth flowing and sound..Engine still sounded great. All temps good. Next day I had same issue, opened up, temps good no issues other than at no wake speed still loud exhaust and turbulent water behind drive. (drive was down). Long story short I discovered water in my oil to the point it seeped out of dip stick tube. I have NO external block leaking, internal don't know....Can this be a exhaust manifold/spacer/riser issue?...The turbulance and loud exhaust is throwing me for a loop. I have no done a pressure test yet of the block
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I would do the pressure test of the block /heads and intake to vet if its cracked. If you are raw water cooled could be rotted out under the thermostat or intake gaskets leaking around water port as well. If it is coming out the dipstick that means you are adding a lot of water to the crank case ...

What brand manifolds and risers did you use? being 2001 that is pre dry joint winder if you didn't have a flat surface between riser and manifolds?

You have the two main pathways identified, only other thing I could think is if you have an engine oil cooler. If it passes the pressure test you will need to look at manifolds etc.

Do you drain to winterize or just run AF through? Would assume this is not the issue if you have ben boating and winterizing on LI but have to ask.

Did your exhaust bellows tear that could make it louder but would have no bearing on the water ingress

May want to flush the engine crankcase with diesel or kero to get moisture out and drain to prevent corrosion. This assume it passes pressure test...
 
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I only use OEM manifolds, spacers and elbows. Just so F ing strange to have this happen (louder exhaust, turbulence). I drain to winterize, poke each and every port. I have been winterizing myself for years. Did I **** up?, a pressure test will tell me. Hoping for the best, but not sure......PS. I pulled all plugs on side of engine that I suspected and cranked after it happened and no water came out............Will do other side, then pressure it up....Thanks for your feedback Dieter.....
 
Tclark said:
I only use OEM manifolds, spacers and elbows. Just so F ing strange to have this happen (louder exhaust, turbulence). I drain to winterize, poke each and every port. I have been winterizing myself for years. Did I **** up?, a pressure test will tell me. Hoping for the best, but not sure......PS. I pulled all plugs on side of engine that I suspected and cranked after it happened and no water came out............Will do other side, then pressure it up....Thanks for your feedback Dieter.....
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good you drain . I boat in upstate NY (finger lakes). Im always amazed how many folks up there just run the cheapest AF through a bucket and muffs...

pressure test and if it fails pull the thermostat and look under there before you get worried. If raw water it isn't uncommon long term for the heads to rot out and leak water but that usually ends up in the cylinders.
 
Dieter said:
good you drain . I boat in upstate NY (finger lakes). Im always amazed how many folks up there just run the cheapest AF through a bucket and muffs...

pressure test and if it fails pull the thermostat and look under there before you get worried. If raw water it isn't uncommon long term for the heads to rot out and leak water but that usually ends up in the cylinders.
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Cheap may work, but I wouldn't trust it if the engine hasn't been drained of water before drawing it in. The 2nd and 3rd dealerships I worked for bought AF in bulk and loose gallons- we were required to drain all inboard and sterndrives- the 2nd used purple AF and we had a refractometer to check the burst temperature- the last didn't have the refractometer and the AF wasn't rated as low, but since we drained the engines, it was OK. However, as soon as I started working there, the shop manager told me that I had to remove the plug on VP engines at the front of the intake manifold (it has a square head) because it won't drain completely if that's not done. We would then draw the AF in and remove all plugs including the one on the intake, bag & hang them on the steering wheel.

I changed my winterizing bucket last fall- I never liked using a 3/4" valve, so I bought a 1-1/4" and it worked much better.
 
Take a step back.

Your first post lacked a ton of information. Thus many posts asking the questions you should have presented in your first post.

1. Closed cooling (use of heat exchanger and antifreeze in block) or Raw water cooling.
2. You said manifold spacer and riser.
FYI, its Manifild, riser and elbow.
3. Why a "spacer"? Spacers/risers are not very common on a 5 ltr. I am not sure why they would be used here.
Seeing as all was good prior year and no reason to think you F'd up winterizing, take the elbows and risers/spacers off and check gaskets.

With a closed cooling and the use of risers/spacers typically one gasket is a block off gasket, you didnt use one of those gaskets did you?
Otherwise if one of the gaskets is leaking into the manifold that would explain water in oil.

Start with what was done since ir ran properly and confirm if all was done correctly then dig deeper.

Could be cooincidental and you blew a head gasket. Worse has happened!
 
Kghost. It is wet joint 5L. EFI. 305, they use 3 inch spacers. Full flow gaskets on both sides. Then elbows, Raw water cooled. What are your thoughts about louder exhaust and too much water turbulence at slow les that 5 mph wake zone driving.
 
Tclark said:
Kghost. It is wet joint 5L. EFI. 305, they use 3 inch spacers. Full flow gaskets on both sides. Then elbows, Raw water cooled. What are your thoughts about louder exhaust and too much water turbulence at slow les that 5 mph wake zone driving.
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What is your understanding of WET JOINT? I think you mean what was standard for the last 40+ years. The newer I believe is called Dry joint.

Link to your exhaust design- https://www.marineengine.com/parts/...u-0m299999/exhaust-manifold-and-exhaust-elbow

Note in parts listing the "spacers" are called RISERS.

As far as noise goes, After repair, did you start engine on trailer, If so did you forget water or delay it to be turned on? If so maybe the flappers crapped out. Item 7 See link of exhaust- https://www.marineengine.com/parts/...9992001/0l331631-thru-0m299999/exhaust-system

if they fell off or got burned off they could be interfering with water flow out the drive. If drive is removed you would see them typically stuck in the gimbal housing where the shift linkage is. They dont interfere with performance typically but could cause similar issues to what you describe.

As far as water in the oil, Thats a crap shoot. additional diagnostics are required but like i said, Start at last repair/work performed and work backwards
 
I would:
remove the exhaust manifolds that you installed and look inside the exhaust ports, do you see evidence of water getting into the ports, rusting the valve stems etc?
Normally a leak at the manifold to elbow joint on a wet joint system will put water into the bottom of the manifold and it will then run into a cylinder, but it will take a while to show up in the oil. And, you might see signs of hydrolock or partial hydrolock such as slow cranking and rough running right after starting.
What will put water into the oil directly is if the intake manifold rots out right under the 'stat housing. You're in Long Island like I am, I have not had that happen with 100% salt water use on my old 1988 4.3 but certainly it can happen. In fact, one thing I do each season before putting the boat in is pull the stat housing, and check that area with a screwdriver, I poke at it to make sure it's still solid. So far so good.
Might want to do that first actually. Because that will put water into the oil much faster than a leaky manifold/elbow joint. I figured out a way to check mine with an endoscope camera, this way I know if it even started leaking just a bit before it becomes a big problem....
 
louc said:
I would:
remove the exhaust manifolds that you installed and look inside the exhaust ports, do you see evidence of water getting into the ports, rusting the valve stems etc?
Normally a leak at the manifold to elbow joint on a wet joint system will put water into the bottom of the manifold and it will then run into a cylinder, but it will take a while to show up in the oil. And, you might see signs of hydrolock or partial hydrolock such as slow cranking and rough running right after starting.
What will put water into the oil directly is if the intake manifold rots out right under the 'stat housing. You're in Long Island like I am, I have not had that happen with 100% salt water use on my old 1988 4.3 but certainly it can happen. In fact, one thing I do each season before putting the boat in is pull the stat housing, and check that area with a screwdriver, I poke at it to make sure it's still solid. So far so good.
Might want to do that first actually. Because that will put water into the oil much faster than a leaky manifold/elbow joint. I figured out a way to check mine with an endoscope camera, this way I know if it even started leaking just a bit before it becomes a big problem....
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Louc. Thank you for your advice. Much appreciated. I did have hydrolock the night it happened when I went to restart after hanging at gilgo for a bit. Towed home. Fired up the next morning. Little rough at idle then cleared up when I increased rpm in neutral. Changed out oil and filter 2x. I have a game plan and will report my results when I know. Don’t really have milkshake but water still in bottom of pan.
 
Tclark said:
Louc. Thank you for your advice. Much appreciated. I did have hydrolock the night it happened when I went to restart after hanging at gilgo for a bit. Towed home. Fired up the next morning. Little rough at idle then cleared up when I increased rpm in neutral. Changed out oil and filter 2x. I have a game plan and will report my results when I know. Don’t really have milkshake but water still in bottom of pan.
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Has it hydroloked before?

I'm going to add some tools to the kit I carry in my boat- I'm not really worried that it will hydrolock, but just about anything is possible, even though I installed a new shutter when I did the other work.
 
Tclark said:
Louc. Thank you for your advice. Much appreciated. I did have hydrolock the night it happened when I went to restart after hanging at gilgo for a bit. Towed home. Fired up the next morning. Little rough at idle then cleared up when I increased rpm in neutral. Changed out oil and filter 2x. I have a game plan and will report my results when I know. Don’t really have milkshake but water still in bottom of pan.
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Oooooops, anither important detail left out. the info on hard starting and rough running as mentioned is not good especially when water is involved. Water doesnt compress and can cause serious issues.
Best to at least pull the spark plugs and see if water shoots out!

I think your exhaust tone and turbulance may be related to missfiring due to water.

Also, with water in oil it can take up to 4 oil changes to clear it up and best to change immediately after running while oil is still mixed with tbe water.

I have recovered sunk boats and it took a lot to get clean oil again. Boat that sank within 24-48 hrs
 
kghost said:
Oooooops, anither important detail left out. the info on hard starting and rough running as mentioned is not good especially when water is involved. Water doesnt compress and can cause serious issues.
Best to at least pull the spark plugs and see if water shoots out!

I think your exhaust tone and turbulance may be related to missfiring due to water.

Also, with water in oil it can take up to 4 oil changes to clear it up and best to change immediately after running while oil is still mixed with tbe water.

I have recovered sunk boats and it took a lot to get clean oil again. Boat that sank within 24-48 hrs
Click to expand...

kghost said:
Oooooops, anither important detail left out. the info on hard starting and rough running as mentioned is not good especially when water is involved. Water doesnt compress and can cause serious issues.
Best to at least pull the spark plugs and see if water shoots out!

I think your exhaust tone and turbulance may be related to missfiring due to water.

Also, with water in oil it can take up to 4 oil changes to clear it up and best to change immediately after running while oil is still mixed with tbe water.

I have recovered sunk boats and it took a lot to get clean oil again. Boat that sank within 24-48 hrs
Click to expand...
Thanks. No never hydrolocked before. Just that one time.
 
I had a similar problem about 10 years ago. It started with reluctant starting ans rough running after a start. Then water showed up in the oil. I checked the ignition system & carb due to rough running before I saw the oil level rising, they were fine.
So I pulled the spark plugs and cranked it over. Water (not enough to hydrolock) came out of # 2, and a little out of #1, like just a mist. Sprayed fogging oil in all cyls and pulled the boat out. First thing ran it & changed oil, then drained exhaust. Pulled exhaust & tested for leaks with acetone. None. So waters getting in but not exhaust. Checked intake manifold, fine. I noticed if engine sat fit a day no water in cyls but 2 days water would show up in #2. Did comp test and no low cyls.
Decided to pull heads and found head gasket fire rings split which made sense because I had an overheat 3 seasons before. Had heads checked at SK Speed Shop in Lindenhurst and both had cracks. Installed re man heads and that fixed the water in oil problem. Still running well, block deck wasn’t damaged by overheat.
 
water /oil mix coming out the dipstick may indicate a cracked block .Using the bucket/earmuff system usually leads to a cracked block because didnt drain all the water first.
 
kghost said:
Oooooops, anither important detail left out. the info on hard starting and rough running as mentioned is not good especially when water is involved. Water doesnt compress and can cause serious issues.
Best to at least pull the spark plugs and see if water shoots out!

I think your exhaust tone and turbulance may be related to missfiring due to water.

Also, with water in oil it can take up to 4 oil changes to clear it up and best to change immediately after running while oil is still mixed with tbe water.

I have recovered sunk boats and it took a lot to get clean oil again. Boat that sank within 24-48 hrs
Click to expand...

Did you add anything to the oil, to make it easier to remove water in tight areas? When I worked for a Mastercraft dealer, someone from MC or Indmar tech suport told me he had recovered many boats that had submerged and he used to add a bit of Kerosene, run it and drain the oil again. Said it made the process a bit shorter.
 
louc said:
I had a similar problem about 10 years ago. It started with reluctant starting ans rough running after a start. Then water showed up in the oil. I checked the ignition system & carb due to rough running before I saw the oil level rising, they were fine.
So I pulled the spark plugs and cranked it over. Water (not enough to hydrolock) came out of # 2, and a little out of #1, like just a mist. Sprayed fogging oil in all cyls and pulled the boat out. First thing ran it & changed oil, then drained exhaust. Pulled exhaust & tested for leaks with acetone. None. So waters getting in but not exhaust. Checked intake manifold, fine. I noticed if engine sat fit a day no water in cyls but 2 days water would show up in #2. Did comp test and no low cyls.
Decided to pull heads and found head gasket fire rings split which made sense because I had an overheat 3 seasons before. Had heads checked at SK Speed Shop in Lindenhurst and both had cracks. Installed re man heads and that fixed the water in oil problem. Still running well, block deck wasn’t damaged by overheat.
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Valuable feedback. Much appreciated I’ll let u know.
 
Other points, since it seemed to hydrolock once....
Was the rear of the boat loaded more heavily than normal?
Were you anchored with wakes or current pushing against the stern?
Most people don't know what the static water line of their boat is, that is how high up would the water come inside the Y pipe when the boat is in the water. Merc has a procedure for how to measure this, and it's worth knowing if your elbows are high enough or not. If not you can add spacers/risers between the manifold and elbow. They have a spec for how high the top of the elbows should be above the actual static water line.
If you find it was from the exhaust, when you take it apart, you have to really make sure that the sealing surfaces are as flat and level as possible. I used a straight edge and feeler gauges to measure the Barr manifolds and elbows that I installed back in 2017. What I installed was a replacement of the OMC one piece batwings, I had to make up my own kit with Barr exhaust parts and V/P downpipes and hoses. It all fit perfect and no leaks inside or out. The manifold and elbow mating surfaces should be flat and level to less than .003" variation. If yours aren't you can take them to a machine shop like SK in Lindenhurst and have them trued up on a belt sander.
I found a way to look inside the elbows with an endoscope camera, by removing a plug in the top of the elbow that VP used for an exhaust temp warning system but any removable plug in the elbow could work. This way after running it, no guesswork, you know if it leaks inside or not. Being that you have a Merc, you could eventually switch to the dry joint system if you wanted too, it's just expensive and you just bought the ones that are on there.

Forgot to mention, you have a 2001, that's a Vortec engine, there were some problems with the intake gaskets, if the gasket by the water ports for the 'stat housing leaks, it will put water right in the oil.

I'd go through the exhaust first, make sure that's not a cause, then re-test. And see if you can figure out a way to measure your static water line. Some people had problems with water up the exhaust after adding heavy items to the stern like an extended swim platform.

Here's a pic of inside the exhaust elbow, after about 4 seasons in salt water....
exhaust staboard side.jpg
 
Much appreciate your reply’s. Kinda giving me hope. Not banking on it but your logic is the way I think. I always winterize myself for eternity. Never an issue but knew I should probably check my stat but did not. Did all off season work, but not stat. Been in there for 5 yrs on yhe great South Bay.
 
PS. My water in oil was not all over bilge. Most came out of dipstick. Looked under valve cover on suspected side and not too dramatic. But slight milkshake sitting on top of spring. 2 cyl
 
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