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1000hr motors from fresh->salt?

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DoubleTroubleTX

New member
Hi all, long time lurker first time poster. :)

We are considering moving our boat from our lake to the coast and eventually from Texas on over to the east coast for coastal cruising up the east coast (and maybe the Great Loop). We have a '94 Carver 440 w/ twin 8.1L gassers and raw water cooling. Each have about 1000 hours and run well only getting about 1-2 hours per weekend during the warm months in Texas. It's perfect size for us and could be refit for a nice liveaboard/cruiser.

In an ideal world, we'd have low hour diesels w/ fresh water cooling but the reality is we don't have that. So the choice comes down to don't go, buy another boat, repower this boat or take the boat as-is and see how she does.

I read lots about how these are solid motors with long lives for gassers if well maintained. So, what's your opinion - would you take it to the coast with 1000hrs and raw water cooling? Are these crusaders solid enough to take another 1000+ hours of salt water? Or do we cut our losses and pick another option?
 
I’d say they are ok for another 1000 hrs in salt water. The other option but expensive is to add closed cooling if the blocks don’t have much internal corrosion.
 
Have a competent shop check them out.------A detailed inspection might not be a bad investment.-----Have you done a " fuel cost estimate " for these trips?
 
I did have a survey when we bought it 2 years ago. I had a starter go out but that's about all so far. Good idea to have a shop do a deep dive into the motors. I haven't done a fuel estimate because I know it will be bad... LOL. But bad is still less than buying a new boat since this one is paid off. :)
 
Did the survey include comprehensive engine inspections? Unless you pay extra, they usually don't...

As to service life, it is driven by the maintenance done and how the engines are used...unless the previous owner(s) provided maintenance logs, you don't have much to go on.

When I worked in a shop, the owner's rule of thumb (for inboards and I/O's) was the top end was good for 1000 hours and the bottom end 2000 hours...that said, with reasonable useable and consistent maintenance (and sythetic oil) I have seen over 3000 hours on gas engines that were still servicable.

If the boat runs well and you are confident in your seamanship skills, it shouldn't be a difficult trip...just make sure you have time flexibility... ( and SeaTow Coverage on your policy ) - if something happens, its highly unlikely to be repaired promptly. a Spare parts kit would also be worth the effort.

As far as future longevity goes, the engines would be much happier with heat exchangers and more frequent use...you could accumulate 1000 hours in two seasons...or it could take decades...so its hard to say with that metric...my guess is that corrosion will eat up something major in 10-15 years...and you'd likely need a rebuild...
 
Thanks for the replies. No, it didn't do an in-depth engine inspection just the normal one with a survey so I'd have to get that done for sure. The engines have been well cared for by the previous owner and myself. The very first owner I'm not sure but all seems well from what I've experienced. We may still just buy a new one with diesels but being retired soon has me wanting to not drop a load of cash for a new (to me) boat when I own this one with no debt. :)
 
I recall a 40' Chriscraft coming into the marina here many years ago.-----Lost a prop ( shaft broke) as they were slowing down.-----They had 2 spare shafts / props / rudders on board.------Hired a diver to help install the new shaft.----Just a 2 day delay for these folks.
 
FWIW, if your use habits aren't likely to change, you will be highly unlikely to "break even" paying the "diesel premium"...
 
To do the " loop " you need really do a fuel cost estimate.----Could be $4 / mile or more for 8000 ( ?? ) miles .-------Dockage is around $2 / foot / night if you use that option.
 
If you remove the thermostat housings & drain down the water in the blocks you can inspect the intake for flaking rust. If you see a lot I would not add closed cooling because those rust flakes will eventually clog the heat exchanger. Running it with raw water cooling that in Salt water just be aware you will have to inspect & replace the exhaust system parts on a regular basis. It depends on the salinity of the water. Here in coastal Long Island you replace the elbows at least every 5/7 seasons; the manifolds can last longer but not always. The other thing I’d inspect is the intake manifold right under the thermostat housing. These can rust through as well but not nearly as often. I have one used 20 years in salt water that’s still good but I do check that just like the exhaust.
If you can add closed cooling & plan to keep that boat a long time it’s not cheap (~~$2000 per engine), but will make the engine last much longer esp the cyl heads. My experience in salt water is that after 15-20 years the heads will corrode to the point where the head gaskets won’t seal well, and may let water into a cylinder. I did mine about 7 years ago with reman heads, Felpro gaskets and ARP head bolts. Bottom end, cam & roller lifters are all original (1988) and still fine! So it can be done. Diesels sound great but unless you use them a lot the increased maintenance & repair cost won’t really make good financial sense.

The other thing in terms of provactive maintenance is to do an oil analysis regularly, I was able to spot a problem developed when I saw sodium (from salt water) showing up with higher than normal Fe (iron) in the analysis. This can alert you to a problem long before you see water in the oil….
 
racerone said:
To do the " loop " you need really do a fuel cost estimate.----Could be $4 / mile or more for 8000 ( ?? ) miles .-------Dockage is around $2 / foot / night if you use that option.
Click to expand...
In the Mid-Atlantic, the 'better' marinas, with short runs to the ocean, are getting $4 - $7/ft/night plus electric, for their overnight rates!
 
Check out a slip rental with Safe Harbor. They have free transient slip (upto 3 nights) at sister marinas with something like 100 marinas.

Engines; replace the exhaust manifolds and risers for peace of mind and go!
 
louc said:
If you remove the thermostat housings & drain down the water in the blocks you can inspect the intake for flaking rust. If you see a lot I would not add closed cooling because those rust flakes will eventually clog the heat exchanger. Running it with raw water cooling that in Salt water just be aware you will have to inspect & replace the exhaust system parts on a regular basis. It depends on the salinity of the water. Here in coastal Long Island you replace the elbows at least every 5/7 seasons; the manifolds can last longer but not always. The other thing I’d inspect is the intake manifold right under the thermostat housing. These can rust through as well but not nearly as often. I have one used 20 years in salt water that’s still good but I do check that just like the exhaust.
If you can add closed cooling & plan to keep that boat a long time it’s not cheap (~~$2000 per engine), but will make the engine last much longer esp the cyl heads. My experience in salt water is that after 15-20 years the heads will corrode to the point where the head gaskets won’t seal well, and may let water into a cylinder. I did mine about 7 years ago with reman heads, Felpro gaskets and ARP head bolts. Bottom end, cam & roller lifters are all original (1988) and still fine! So it can be done. Diesels sound great but unless you use them a lot the increased maintenance & repair cost won’t really make good financial sense.

The other thing in terms of provactive maintenance is to do an oil analysis regularly, I was able to spot a problem developed when I saw sodium (from salt water) showing up with higher than normal Fe (iron) in the analysis. This can alert you to a problem long before you see water in the oil….
Click to expand...

The intake on an 8.1L engine is aluminum.
 
DoubleTroubleTX said:
Hi all, long time lurker first time poster. :)

We are considering moving our boat from our lake to the coast and eventually from Texas on over to the east coast for coastal cruising up the east coast (and maybe the Great Loop). We have a '94 Carver 440 w/ twin 8.1L gassers and raw water cooling. Each have about 1000 hours and run well only getting about 1-2 hours per weekend during the warm months in Texas. It's perfect size for us and could be refit for a nice liveaboard/cruiser.

In an ideal world, we'd have low hour diesels w/ fresh water cooling but the reality is we don't have that. So the choice comes down to don't go, buy another boat, repower this boat or take the boat as-is and see how she does.

I read lots about how these are solid motors with long lives for gassers if well maintained. So, what's your opinion - would you take it to the coast with 1000hrs and raw water cooling? Are these crusaders solid enough to take another 1000+ hours of salt water? Or do we cut our losses and pick another option?
Click to expand...

If you want to run an 8.1L in salt water, you should get heat exchangers. Salt will destroy those intakes. The 8.1L is a fine engine, the fuel will cost you double on the loop, but it will still likely be cheaper than the swap. You'd likely be better off selling what you have and buying a diesel vs swapping engines.

That said, the lower ends on those 8.1Ls should be fine for 2k hours, but you'll likely need to replace the roller lifters sooner than later. 1000 hours is a lot on those lifters.
 
THE LOOP
....
If you head north you will probably go through the 1000 Islands USA and Canada, or perhaps Osweego to Kingston. Regardless you have to go through the TRENT CANAL which starts in Trenton Ontario,

This summer a fellow tied up at one of the Canadian 1000 Islands, (McDonald Island),for the night and he was going to make the 75 NM run from the island to Trenton to start the Trent Canal.
He was driving a 1973 Jetski with 80hp motor !!! I believe he started out somewhere around the Tennessee area. I don't know what he was paying for his cigarettes, :cautious:but he said......... so far he had paid $15,000.00 for Gas:eek: !!!! OUCH !!!!!
 
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