Logo
FULL SITE MENU

2002 Honda 130 Starts, dies on 1st startup, then fine

B

beaverbeliever

New member
I've got a 2002 Honda 130 without about 150 hours on it. 90% of the time especially when it's 60 degrees or cooler the motor starts flawlessly, runs for about 3-4 seconds and then sputters and dies quickly. I can then fire it back up and it will run all day without a hiccup. I haven't given it a lot of thought since it performs as expected after this startup routine but I thought it would be worth trying to figure out one of these days. I've got new plugs, new oil, fuel bulb is primed. Not sure what else it could be.
 
Sounds like it might be an air bubble getting into your fuel line. Are you holding the bulb vertical (arrow pointing up) when priming? Is the bulb lower than the motor when you do it? Can you try a different fuel line on a portable tank and see if it's still a problem. Or you could prime up and then drain the carbies and then prime up again, then start up and see if it still happens. If the non return valve in the fuel bulb is not functioning correctly then I have seen it draw air back through siphon action while the motor is not running.
 
This motor is fuel injected so I can't do the drain the carb thing. I have run it off a separate line and tank so I don't think it's a hose air leak but I can try that again.
 
Sorry I was pre morning coffee when I replied and didn't take enough notice of your model and year. Others on here are more familiar with the fuel injected units than me and I'm sure someone has ideas that will help you. Best of luck.
 
That is normal for the 115/130 models. I can not explain it, nor have I got any explanation from Honda. My theory is that it does not have enough fuel pressure at the injectors on the first try to start. You can try to turn the key to on for two seconds and back off a couple of times and see if that helps....but it will probably be just as fast to just start it as you have been.

Wish I had a better answer, but it "is what it is".

Mike
 
Have you owned the outboard for a long time? And, if so, has it always done this or has this started happening recently?

I know a wee bit about fuel injected engines (ASE MASTER and L1 advanced engine performance certified) although my experience is mostly in car engines.

If it has always been like this, as Mike says, there's probably not much to be done. But if it were a car this would be "abnormal" and I have a couple of ideas that you may (or may not) be interested in.
 
Yeah, I think I remember you telling someone else that about these outboards some time back. But I'm really curious to know if it has been doing this since '02 and he is just now wanting to find out why? Or, maybe it was previously owned and now it's become an annoyance?

Just me being me....you know....nosy.:~)

Still...if this was in the automotive world, they would "typically" come out with a "reflash" for the ECM to widen injection pulse width...or whatever it takes to get it to go away. It just seems curious that Honda's answer is "oh, they all do that".

So, you have found that cycling the pump a couple of times seems to help? Not that I really NEED the info...it's not like I'm going to run out and work on one tomorrow....just NOSY!

Thanks MIKE!
 
This is the first fuel injected Honda. There is no provision to connect a computer for reflash....although, they may be able to do so at the factory or in a lab. It is pretty simple...only basic sensors on board.

I do not have a solution. It is odd. After they run for a few seconds and die, they always start the second time. Then, as beaverbeliever states, it is good for the rest of the day.

I guess I am just getting too old....over the years, I have just accepted it. Just do not have the time to chase a ghost that only appears the first time you crank the engine....too many other things to do during the day. If I try something and it starts right up...I never know if it started due to what I did or if it did it on its own....I can not retry until another day or two. When I move on to another repair, parts order, customer call, motor sale, etc....I tend to forget the experiment and that boat has been moved out of the bay or picked up by the customer.

Mike
 
Many of the older fuel injected cars required that you turn the ignition on and wait till the fuel pump got up to pressure and stopped before starting was reliable. I even have a nissan bluebird SSS (Altima for you folks in the US) from the early 90's that takes a good 5 to 10 seconds before the pump stops. I say 5 to 10 but it seems like forever... If you just jump In and start cranking it feels like a hard start. Probably not related to the issue at hand but a little anecdote never hurt....
 
Thanks for the interest you guys. I bought the boat and both the 130 and 9.9 motors 3 years ago and the 130 had a total of 63 hours on it. I asked around about the starting issue when I got it and didn't find much on it. It's done this since the day i picked it up. I will try to consciously leave the key on like I do on my diesel and give the pump more time to prime the system and see if it makes a difference. Again, it's not something I'm really worried about as there are no other issues but as well as it runs I had assumed this startup sequence wasn't a normal honda thing.
 
Well, MOST FI fed CAR engines with excess fuel return circuts have a "KEY ON PUMP RUN TIME". IE: they are programmed to run the pump for a few seconds...(Ford is 3-5 seconds normally) to ensure there is adequate pressure available on first crank. This occurs each and every time the key is cycled on whether the engine is hot or cold.

leaving the key on for a "longer period" before cranking the engine is likely to achieve nothing. However, you may want to try CYCLING the key to ON for 3 seconds (or, if you can hear the pump operating, until the pump stops) then OFF then back on again for 3 more seconds and then crank to see if it makes a difference in "behavior".

If that doesn't work, you could try doing it a couple of times before cranking. If THAT doesn't make a difference....then there is no use continuing trying and you have probably proven that INITIAL lack of fuel pressure is NOT the cause for the behavior. And,it is likely a "cold enrichment" programming "oversight" in the ECM that Mike says cannot be corrected because there is no provision for a field recalibration. And, when Mike says it, you can pretty much bank on it!
 
Last edited:
Jimmy is wrong (sorry Jimmy)....I am not always right. Just ask my wife. LOL

But.....Jimmy is also right. When you turn the key to on, the high pressure pump on the 130 only runs for 2 seconds. So, after the 2 seconds, try turning the key off and back on again before 2 seconds to see if it makes any difference.

In watching fuel pressure during the first key on, they do get to 40 psi, so I am not sure fuel pressure is the problem...that is why it is so puzzling.

Mike
 
Yes, I predict the extra key on trick probably won't make much difference but it won't hurt anything if you want to give it a try. I will write a big long thing on what I think is happening ( like I usually do) after you try it and report back.
 
Very interesting post...

I have a 1999 BF130 Honda that -- knock on wood -- will start and stays running the first time, almost every time.

If I use it every week, it's never been a problem for mine, and it's more likely to need a 2nd start only if it has sat for 2 weeks or so, or towards the end of the season (Maine) when it's colder out. My 2 older brothers had this 130 on my Arima for 10 years before my four (not sure about the original owner's first 2 years), but over the last 14 years... We have not had that recurring "2nd Start" issue as a routine.

What I don't see noted above anywhere...........

Q: Do you ever use the warm-up lever in neutral gear (the "fast idle lever" for throttle control) on every cold start? I do every time.

If I hear her start to sputter, I will quickly advance the lever and she'll stay running most times with the exceptions I noted above. But I also think that about 90% of the time, I never have to "goose it" with that lever -- as long as the lever is up and already advanced before the start. (It takes no time or effort and it's second nature to me at startup.)

I think the key to getting and keeping gas to it -- is to quite literally: "Gas it!"

Try this! Hope it helps!

Old No7
 
Thanks for joining in, old No7. The 130 is "supposed" to be started without advancing the fast idle lever. The IAC is supposed to give it enough extra air to increase the idle and the ECM is "supposed" to compensate for the other items, like timing and injector pulse width. So it starts at a higher rpm and as it warms up, the rpms lower to the proper rpm.

Advancing the throttle gives it more air and the change in the throttle position sensor tells the ECM to "gas it".

The idle/air mixture screw on the throttle body can be adjusted to give it more air, but it should be adjusted to proper base idle. We used to do that with every brand new motor, since none of them were adjusted correctly from the factory.

However, it does sound like your motor acts pretty much the same as the others, even with throttle advanced (after sitting for two weeks). If yours does not start properly when cold with the throttle not advanced, then you may have an IAC issue.

Mike
 
I'm confused....I know...normal....but still...

I thought Mike had said the '02 130 was the FIRST FI model. Or did he just mean the 130 was the first FI model...since this example is a '99.

So much to destroy....so little time.
 
Maybe I was not very clear (as usual)....the 115/130 was the first FI Honda outboard. The were introduced in the US in 1999.

Mike
 
I have a slight variation of this problem. I recently purchased a 2001 World Cat 266LC with twin BF130's and, in addition to having to restart the engines, I also have experienced situations where an engine dies when idling in a lock or when maneuvering to dock which entails having the throttle in neutral at times. The boat is coming up for its first annual with me as owner, but it would be interesting to hear what the experts here recommend.

BTW, idle RPM is around 800. Can't get more specific than that as I'm back in the freezer in Massachusetts.
 
Welcome to the forum.

800 rpm is in spec for the idle.

A few things that they will/should probably look at....

1. Check compression
2. Check to be sure engine is getting to temperature. Thermostat may be stuck open and engine running cold.
3. Check IAC for proper operation. Clean as necessary
4. Check/adjust base idle adjustment
5. Inspect throttle body and clean as necessary.
6. Check/change spark plugs with proper plugs
7. Check fuel for quality, water, etc.
8. Check oil level...should be about 1/4" below full mark.
9. Change low and high pressure filters (although probably not the cause of your idle problem)
10. Change vapor separator vent filter (if it has not been changed for a while - most people ignore this filter)
11. Based on compression/leakdown tests, engine may need decarbonation.
12. Check PVC valve....they may not even know that it has one....the 130 is the only Honda outboard that has one
13. Check/adjust valve clearances. Clearances out of adjustment can cause poor idle

Since this is your first service, it would probably be good to do most of this anyway, since you probably do not know what was done before you......and it gives you a base line to work from.

Of course they will change the engine oil, filter and gear lube.

The other unknown is when the water pump were changed last. If you do not know, it would be wise to change them now.

There.....just a few thoughts.

Hope they find the problem.

Mike
 
Back
Top