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2014 BF 9.9D Impeller Issues

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William01

Advanced Contributor
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Entire water pump kit installed during the winter of 2022, I have about 35 hours of use between last summer and this spring. Started the engine up yesterday and noticed a week telltale upon start up, within seconds the telltale flow stopped altogether. Shut the engine down immediately. Upon inspection the vane at the 2:30 and 3:30 position are trying to climb out of the impeller liner. I’m guessing the impeller key jumped out of either the impeller or the drive shaft. I have on hand a brand new impeller, 2 keys, one spare that’s original from the factory with 5 hour on it plus the key that I suspect jumped out of the track with about 35 hours on it. Of course the Honda service kit is back ordered and expected delivery is June 19 IF it doesn’t get pushed back further. My question is, am I wasting my time installing a brand new impeller with a gently used key and using a 35 hour oring? Any idea why the key jumped the track, if that’s what happened?
 
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The cover plate to the right is 35 hours old, the cover plate on the left is the original with 5 hours on it. Considerably less wear on the left, wondering if I should replace the used plate with another less used plate?
 
Hmmm....Velly intellesting....
As they say in some country I have never been to nor know anything about.

Anywho...

....Wow!
That's kind of crazy!

YES! I would say swap out that obviously softer material plate on the left. I'll bet that originated at to Office Of Cost Reduction deep in the bowels of The Honda Conglomerate.

Disgusting!!

I mean, you can SURE BET you're chitlins' they didn't make the impeller HARDER!

THANKS HONDA! You subbed that crap out to an inferior contractor and now your CUSTOMERS have something ELSE to worry about!

Have you pulled the "cup" out of the housing and inspected that closely? Zero wear and almost zero movement in the fit is the goal. Any distortion of the plastic would have me concerned.

I know those keys wear much faster than most realize but at 35 hours? SHEESH!

Is the cut out in the main shaft "worried" at all? I know chawk_man is right now this minute changing out the shaft on his because that depression got worked by the impeller key.
But his engine is 20 times more powerful than our little stuff!
Still, it makes me wonder about the quality of those EXPENSIVE replacement parts. Hope that didn't bite him too!

One thing I would suggest is that you try not to over torque the bolts holding the wiper plate or the cup. That could set up some warpage the eye just can't see. An inch pound torque wrench is your friend here to get that stuff tight but not too tight and even.

I know you'll let us know how this goes.

Good luck.
 
Another thought about that plate wear...
Any chance you accidentally did a tilt up start at some point? Or someone else you share the outboard with might have done that? These pumps don't tolerate dry at all. Grass or debris in/over the intake screens will cause damage pretty dang quick. But you know that I'm sure.
Having said that, I hope your installation marine grease was fresh and not contaminated in some way. I've been assembling parts before and, after applying the grease, get interrupted. When I come back to the work the next day there's a nice coat of wind borne dust all in my grease. Just sayin'.

Good luck.
 
What an experience!!! Brand new impeller, salvaged the best of the used parts except the cup, it was involved in a meltdown by the previous owner so I made the assumption that it could be deformed. Fought with the impeller to get it installed with all the vanes pointing in the right direction only to discover that I had it upside down. Start again, same fight with the vanes…Now to get the impeller lined up with the key, missed, reposition the key…oh crap the impeller popped out of the cup…finally success, get everything bolted up. Get that heavy sucker onto the hand cart filled the bucket with water and started it. WTF a few dribbles then bang full flow, I had my hand at the telltale and a piece of insect came out with the water. Got me wondering if that was my problem all along? Prior to disassembling I shoved a needle in the hole and checked to make sure the hose was connected.
To answer your questions, I never loan my rifles, outboards or wife to anyone. Impeller has never been run dry however depending on wind I’ll start the engine immediately after dropping it into the water and let it warm up in forward and idle away from shore. That being said it’s possible that the engine isn’t submerged long enough to flood the cavity so I might be running it too soon. Thoughts?
 
Well, I don't think an insect in the bypass would be the cause of all that worry. And, what you describe doing at start up sounds reasonable to me. I don't think that would cause damage.

As far as not loaning the wife out....why not? ;>)
 
When you see/know a couple and wonder to yourself “What the heck is she doing with that clown?” I’m that clown. Wouldn’t want her to figure out see she could do better.
Thanks for your insight and thoughts, much appreciated.
 
Well it’s been 2 years, 1st run of the season had a week telltale but picked up with increased revs. 2nd run a few dribbles then no telltale. I have a new water pump kit on hand but wondering what I’m doing wrong? All parts are OEM parts. The engine sits in an unheated shed over winter, I follow the Honda service manual to a tee when installing the water pump kit. Any suggestions what to look for before I drop the lower unit? Estimated 60-70 hours since the last impeller change. 2014 BF9.9D BABJ
 
Hi William01,
Yeah, that doesn't sound like you're getting the use out of the pump that you should.

The only question I have is are you using the complete replacement kit or just a new impeller?

A new impeller in a worn cover or a cover that can move inside a worn housing will usually not perform well and the impeller life will be short.

Other than that, I would look very closely at the condition of the drive key and at the "flat" it sits in on the mainshaft. I never reuse drive keys.

Dry starts are killer so maybe take off the water intake grills and check for any obstructions that might hinder priming.

I hope they haven't started selling inferior parts! I know that has really become a problem in automotive these days with even OEM dealer parts sometimes coming boxed in different "tiers" of quality.
 
Stop the motor by running the fuel out of the carburetor.----Then pull the cord slowly to spin the motor 2 revolutions.-----And occasionally pull the cord when you walk by during long term storage.
 
Pulled the water pump off paying close attention to the woodruff key, of course it fell out as soon as I lifted the water pump case off the drive shaft but it was sitting directly below the keyway so I’m ASSUMING it was in position. Wear on the plate and impeller cone, see pictures below. I installed a complete Honda water as per the service manual, filled a barrel up and started the engine, no water coming out the telltale. I can blow air(lung pressure) and hear bubbles so I’m ASSUMING the telltale circuit isn’t plugged. Will disassemble the water pump to check my work but other than that I’m at a loss on what to try next?
Photos too big, I’ll work on that and try posting them individually
 
A couple of things that have burned me before...

...Make sure you get a strong light and check the grommet that the water tube fits into at the base of the engine block. That grommet can get torn or pushed up into the hole accidentally when the gearcase is being installed.

If you're using marine grease to hold the drive key, sometimes on a hot day, the grease can get too soft and let the key slip out of place while you're installing the impeller.
 
jgmo said:
A couple of things that have burned me before...

...Make sure you get a strong light and check the grommet that the water tube fits into at the base of the engine block. That grommet can get torn or pushed up into the hole accidentally when the gearcase is being installed.

If you're using marine grease to hold the drive key, sometimes on a hot day, the grease can get too soft and let the key slip out of place while you're installing the impeller.
Click to expand...
Grommet appears to be fine, put the old pump in and measured the distance to were it would sit once it was installed, about 1/8” difference so that tells me the grommet isn’t shoved in. Hard to see if it’s torn, nothing obvious. When I dropped the lower unit 15 minutes ago there was no water in the cavity where the drive shaft/water tube sits so that tells me the water pump discharge tube has slid into the water tube or the pump isn’t pumping otherwise there would be evidence of water in the cavity. Woodruff key was in place when I pulled the pump aligned the impeller key way. Using marine grease and it’s not warm here.
 
Once the water pump is reassembled I’m thinking about using a drill to spin the drive shaft clockwise to ensure the pump is actually pumping, I don’t see why it wouldn’t but it’s worth a check. Thinking if I wrap a scrap piece of inner tube around the drive shaft splines to protect them form the drill chuck? Any suggestions? Would hate to damage the splines!
 
Update: Rigged up an adapter from the garden hose(about 40psi) to the water intake tube and had water peeing out 8’ so I’m confident that there is no obstructions in the engine.

Rigged up some plastic tube and a nut driver to protect the drive shaft splines and spun the drive shaft at 880 rpms(drill max rpms) and have water exiting the water tube seal ring. Water wasn’t exiting up more than 1/4” above the water tube seal ring however water was pumping out the full diameter of the tube just no pressure , when I put my thumb over the exit to restrict water flow then that’s when I got a bath. I’ve never tried this method to test the water pump so my question is how high or how much water should be coming from the pump at 880 rpms?
 
racerone said:
Stop the motor by running the fuel out of the carburetor.----Then pull the cord slowly to spin the motor 2 revolutions.-----And occasionally pull the cord when you walk by during long term storage.
Click to expand...
If it’s going to sit for than a week I run the fuel out of the carburetor. Why\when to pull the cord slowly for 2 revolutions? Never thought to pull the cord during winter, to prevent the impeller from “sticking” to the base plate? Trying to learn as much as I can about outboards.
 
Must have missed the water tube when inserting the lower unit. This time I sat on the ground and paid close attention to ensure the water pump discharge did in fact slide into the greased water tube. Peeing like a race horse now!

Still bugs me why every 2 years I lose the telltale stream.
 
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