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Fuel Solenoid Valve cause misfire / no start? 2006 BF200

P

Phaze

Member
Was out yesterday and the engine started heavily surging up and down on plane around 4k rpm. Slowed down and shut engine off, and then it wouldn’t fire, but would crank. Tried multiple times and fuel started coming out of the starboard side of the motor down the midsection chap, Got towed in.

VST tank is clean and float working properly, HP pump working properly (it’s priming when ignition turned “on”). While in this area I noticed that my fuel solenoid valve under the low pressure pump was extremely rusty. Connections looked fine though. I’m wondering if that could have caused my surging and no start if it’s bad?

Thank you for any help!
 
Hi,

I just wanted to say welcome to the forum.
Sometimes it takes a while for the guys best versed in the big outboards to answer but I'm sure that they will.

I don't work on these but I do have a pdf manual and it says that the fuel line cut-off valve solenoid is supposed to open for 4 seconds whenever the key is turned ON. I suppose that's something that you might want to take a look at.

It goes on to say, and I will quote:

"When the engine temperature sensor detects 60°C (140°f) or more and both the engine speed and engine load are in excess of given values after the engine has been restarted"....it says that the valve "opened time" is 50 seconds.

I don't know what the "given values" they refer to are asI haven't been able to locate that in the manual.

Have you been able to find the source of the fuel leak?

You say that the HP pump runs to prime. Does it turn off after 3 to 4 seconds?

One thing I note that is interesting is that the issue happened near 4000 rpm. That is the speed that the Intake Air Bypass (IAB) system is turned on and off.

Specifically, it opens at 3950 rpm and closes at 3750 rpm.
I recall reading a post from member chawk_man about how to go about checking it. You may want to search his posts. Hopefully he will answer you soon as he is very knowledgeable on your model.

I don't mind discussing the problem with you but, having no hands on experience with these, I will probably be of little help.

I would forward this manual to you but I haven't been successful at doing that either. It's either I'm just a dummy or it's something to do with my phone.

Just wanted you to know that your post IS being looked at.
 
Well, if the fuel cut off valve is malfunctioning, you could be experiencing vapor lock. See the first attachment that explains exactly how it works.

The second attachment shows troubleshooting, but that is wed to old procedures. If you can get a dealer to hook up Dr. H, it can assess the cut off valve.

The surging around 4K rpm MAY be due to a stuck IAB. See the third attachment to understand how to diagnose that problem. However, a stuck IAB will not cause an engine stall or no start.

Now, let's go back to the basics. Did you get an alarm? If so, did you pull MIL fault codes? If so, what codes did you get?
 

Attachments

  • Fuel line cutoff Solonoid Valve purpose.pdf
    511.9 KB · Views: 51
  • Fuel line cutoff test procedure.pdf
    396.8 KB · Views: 49
  • Honda 225 Intake Air Bypass.pdf
    451.4 KB · Views: 43
jgmo said:
Hi,

I just wanted to say welcome to the forum.
Sometimes it takes a while for the guys best versed in the big outboards to answer but I'm sure that they will.

I don't work on these but I do have a pdf manual and it says that the fuel line cut-off valve solenoid is supposed to open for 4 seconds whenever the key is turned ON. I suppose that's something that you might want to take a look at.

It goes on to say, and I will quote:

"When the engine temperature sensor detects 60°C (140°f) or more and both the engine speed and engine load are in excess of given values after the engine has been restarted"....it says that the valve "opened time" is 50 seconds.

I don't know what the "given values" they refer to are asI haven't been able to locate that in the manual.

Have you been able to find the source of the fuel leak?

You say that the HP pump runs to prime. Does it turn off after 3 to 4 seconds?

One thing I note that is interesting is that the issue happened near 4000 rpm. That is the speed that the Intake Air Bypass (IAB) system is turned on and off.

Specifically, it opens at 3950 rpm and closes at 3750 rpm.
I recall reading a post from member chawk_man about how to go about checking it. You may want to search his posts. Hopefully he will answer you soon as he is very knowledgeable on your model.

I don't mind discussing the problem with you but, having no hands on experience with these, I will probably be of little help.

I would forward this manual to you but I haven't been successful at doing that either. It's either I'm just a dummy or it's something to do with my phone.

Just wanted you to know that your post IS being looked at.
Click to expand...
Hey!

I appreciate the info. interesting if it's supposed to open on ignition "on" as I only hear the HP pump (which does turn off after a few seconds). Not sure if the solenoid valve would make a loud enough sound or not as I haven't hear it myself yet. have the new one on the way from boats.net cause it's in bad shape even if it isn't the problem.

I'll check out the IAB information. Thank you very much.
 
chawk_man said:
Well, if the fuel cut off valve is malfunctioning, you could be experiencing vapor lock. See the first attachment that explains exactly how it works.

The second attachment shows troubleshooting, but that is wed to old procedures. If you can get a dealer to hook up Dr. H, it can assess the cut off valve.

The surging around 4K rpm MAY be due to a stuck IAB. See the third attachment to understand how to diagnose that problem. However, a stuck IAB will not cause an engine stall or no start.

Now, let's go back to the basics. Did you get an alarm? If so, did you pull MIL fault codes? If so, what codes did you get?
Click to expand...
Hey Chawk,

I actually replaced my IAB recently as I was having idle surging problems and that seemed to help. the shaft on the old one was seized and no amount of lubrication fixed it. I bought a used one on ebay from a reputable parts shop and it actuates properly when starting, and by hand if I engage the spring.

I have a new shutoff valve on the way from boats.net, it looked terrible so I wanted to replace it even if it wasn't the cause. I'll try to test it though. I didn't hear it engaging like the HP pump when ignition was "on"

would fuel have been coming from one of the vapor lines if it was locked up, as I was getting fuel dumping out of the side of the engine?

MIL showed code 1 and 23. o2 sensor is only 3 months old, and I saw it can also indicate misfire, which would concur with 23 for knock sensor in my opinion.
 
jgmo said:
Hi,

I just wanted to say welcome to the forum.
Sometimes it takes a while for the guys best versed in the big outboards to answer but I'm sure that they will.

I don't work on these but I do have a pdf manual and it says that the fuel line cut-off valve solenoid is supposed to open for 4 seconds whenever the key is turned ON. I suppose that's something that you might want to take a look at.

It goes on to say, and I will quote:

"When the engine temperature sensor detects 60°C (140°f) or more and both the engine speed and engine load are in excess of given values after the engine has been restarted"....it says that the valve "opened time" is 50 seconds.

I don't know what the "given values" they refer to are asI haven't been able to locate that in the manual.

Have you been able to find the source of the fuel leak?

You say that the HP pump runs to prime. Does it turn off after 3 to 4 seconds?

One thing I note that is interesting is that the issue happened near 4000 rpm. That is the speed that the Intake Air Bypass (IAB) system is turned on and off.

Specifically, it opens at 3950 rpm and closes at 3750 rpm.
I recall reading a post from member chawk_man about how to go about checking it. You may want to search his posts. Hopefully he will answer you soon as he is very knowledgeable on your model.

I don't mind discussing the problem with you but, having no hands on experience with these, I will probably be of little help.

I would forward this manual to you but I haven't been successful at doing that either. It's either I'm just a dummy or it's something to do with my phone.

Just wanted you to know that your post IS being looked at.
Click to expand...
Sorry I misspoke, I actually have replaced the IAB valve on the front of the intake recently
 
@chawk_man @jgmo alright guys so I performed the test on the original fuel solenoid valve and when ignition is turned to “on” it opens and then closes about 4 seconds later. So it would seem that it is working properly after all.

I guess at this point, my main concern is that I was dumping fuel out of the side of the motor when trying to turn it over but when I took the VST and HP pump apart they were full of fuel, so this must indicate a leak somewhere higher up right? Maybe around the fuel rails? I could not recreate the leak at home although I did not try to turn it on nearly as many times as on the water after the surging.
 
Take a look at items 1, 2, 4, 5, 16, 17 and 23 in the link.

I don't know what all that is but items 4 and five have the words." air vent" label.

And, item 2 doesn't appear to connect to anything. I couldn't find any info on those parts in the manual I have.

Just wondering if that's an anti air lock for the low pressure system??? If so, could that check valve be faulty???

I don't know....that's why the question marks.


Also, I was wondering if, when you replaced the O2 sensor, did you use a torque wrench to tighten it? I know that many O2 sensors get damaged from being overtightened. Just some thoughts.

Good luck.
 
jgmo said:
Take a look at items 1, 2, 4, 5, 16, 17 and 23 in the link.

I don't know what all that is but items 4 and five have the words." air vent" label.

And, item 2 doesn't appear to connect to anything. I couldn't find any info on those parts in the manual I have.

Just wondering if that's an anti air lock for the low pressure system??? If so, could that check valve be faulty???

I don't know....that's why the question marks.


Also, I was wondering if, when you replaced the O2 sensor, did you use a torque wrench to tighten it? I know that many O2 sensors get damaged from being overtightened. Just some thoughts.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
2 does not connect to anything, you’re correct.

I went through that whole tubing system including the large filter between the VST and check valve, it was clear. I replaced that check valve too back when I was having idling issues to see if it helped but turned out to be the IAB. Not sure of the exact function of the tubing system either but it ties into the intake manifold, air dam, Low pressure pump and VST

Regarding o2 sensor I did not use a torque wrench, it’s in such a crappy spot on the exhaust manifold and with the deutch plug attached I couldn’t get a socket on so I just used a 7/8 wrench. Spec said 31 ft lbs
 
Well, it sounds as if you're pretty well versed and have done alot. It also sounds as if you understand and paid attention to the stress that too much torque would put on the sensor. So, questions asked and answered.

Have you been able to get the engine running?

One thing that you said before was that you hadn't tried to start it as much as you did when it quit on the water.

If you haven't already, you might want to simply turn ignition on and let the pump prime then shut off and repeat. Do that several times in a row to see if the fuel leak returns and maybe you can locate it.
Finding that leak is definitely high priority.

Good luck.
 
jgmo said:
Well, it sounds as if you're pretty well versed and have done alot. It also sounds as if you understand and paid attention to the stress that too much torque would put on the sensor. So, questions asked and answered.

Have you been able to get the engine running?

One thing that you said before was that you hadn't tried to start it as much as you did when it quit on the water.

If you haven't already, you might want to simply turn ignition on and let the pump prime then shut off and repeat. Do that several times in a row to see if the fuel leak returns and maybe you can locate it.
Finding that leak is definitely high priority.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thank you,

I have to put the fuel system back together on Friday when I’m off work next and then will try to start, but I’ll definitely do as you suggested and prime the system a ton to see if I can locate it.

Really hope it’s not the injectors cause that will be a PAIN. Lol. Appreciate all the help
 
jgmo said:
Well, it sounds as if you're pretty well versed and have done alot. It also sounds as if you understand and paid attention to the stress that too much torque would put on the sensor. So, questions asked and answered.

Have you been able to get the engine running?

One thing that you said before was that you hadn't tried to start it as much as you did when it quit on the water.

If you haven't already, you might want to simply turn ignition on and let the pump prime then shut off and repeat. Do that several times in a row to see if the fuel leak returns and maybe you can locate it.
Finding that leak is definitely high priority.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Alright so I worked my way through fuel system again and found that the HP pump is not feeding fuel to the rails when I try to prime it or turn the engine over. Got it off, had to torch the top screws to pull the cover off lol so melted the top of the pump but even so when I put it in water and put power to it, it was very clearly stuck and took several seconds before it freed and started spouting water. Got that on the way so I’ll update again when it’s back together. Appreciate your continued help
 
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