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Picking up 12 volts for petronix ignition

"Glenn, I am going to use the

"Glenn, I am going to use the flame thrower 11 igniter and the flamethrower 11 coil, so one more time if my CDI ESA is not fried, I will put back the resistor wire I had removed to the pos. side of the coil, run a red wire back to the alternator and attach to the same terminal as the resistor, then if our local NAPA has the resistor tape you talked about and I use it will this save my ESA-CDI?"
 
"It's not a wire [url=""]h

"It's not a wire http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/(S(af5yap45xwmtic55tlbjkvza))/Results.aspx?Ntt =ICR23&Ntk=Part%20Number&N=0&Nty=1&D=ICR23&Dn=0&Dk=1&Dp=3
What I did was mount the resistor on the coil attached the current resistor wire to one side and run new from other side to positive terminal. Then I hooked the red Ignitor wire to the resistor wire where it ran out from the alternator. Its the one that a single wire is branced into two, one grey one for the ESA power and one that is the resistor."
 
"Man...this is getting very me

"Man...this is getting very messy. I'm really blown away that this setup can blow away the CDI ESA. I would not have thought that would be possible. I understand that the coil with a lower resistance will draw more current but don't see how that affects the ESA, a device should should only draw as much current as it's resistance needs."
 
"Well the rain quit and warmed

"Well the rain quit and warmed up so I installed the flame thrower ign.,and coil, bought a ign. coil resistor at napa, ran a red 12 gauge wire from the coil to the alt.and hooked up where the resistor wire is, hooked up the resistor to one of the napa resistor block, and from the other side of the block ran a wire to the pos. side of the coil, I had hooked up the esa cdi module earlier, so when we tried to start the engine it turned over but would not start, tried a couple more times with no. 1 spark plug grounded to the manifold and had no spark, removed the distributor cap it all looked normal so will wait till tomorrow and try to figure what is not working, any ideas?"
 
"Ron,
Getting close. Make sur

"Ron,
Getting close. Make sure your coil spark cable is tightly seated. Look at Bob's diagram above top right where it says PU is where you jumper/conect the red wire of the ignitor to, with black to negative side of coil. You don't say above how you did this. You keep the original resistor wire (diagram PU/R) and connect it to one side of napa resistor and run a new wire one from other side of resistor to + of coil. Two wires should be now on + resistor start + 12v rundiagram PU/B). Make sure ESA is properly/tightly grounded. If still no start disconnect the esa and see if it does which is either bad news ESA wise or switch possibly not in center position on cam"
 
"Yeah Ron, I gave you some bad

"Yeah Ron, I gave you some bad info earlier. I was reading the ignition testing procedures last night in the OMC manual and realized what Glen says above. You need to connect to the purple (PU) post at the alternator, not the red/purple. Sorry, my bad......."
 
"Chuck no problem after I came

"Chuck no problem after I came inside and thought about the wiring I got the diagram out and realized I have to change the connection, also I am using jumpers as Bob said tomorrow and if it starts then I will go from there"
 
"Guys....I got the doc's f

"Guys....I got the doc's from Glenn (Thanks Glenn!) As they are PDF files I don't see any way to actually attach them here. Bottom line is though if the coil is drawing too much current (resistance too low) then the transistor in the Ignitor module is not able to drive the voltage at the coil down close enough to ground for the coil operate correctly. I'm still not sure how this phenomenon can cause the CDI (ESA) module to fail?

So bottom line is you need approx 3 ohms resistance, the stock coils were about 1.5 and the resistance wire is another 1.5 so that gives you 3 ohms and approx 4 amps at the coil. When you go to the Flamethrower coil with only .6 ohms you need to either keep the resistance wire in the circuit and add a 1 ohm ballast resistor (as Glenn has done) or leave the resistor wire out and add in a 2.5 ohm ballast resistor."
 
"Man I was starting to get all

"Man I was starting to get all confused! IM doing same thing, but my boat is running now. I have the new cdi esa THAT IM GONN INSTALL NEXT WEEK. I never spliced into any wires, I ran red wire from module to alt. ran fine. old esa has never worked, in fact when it is connected it kill the motor. I guess i will try the 1 ohm ballast resistor"
 
Looks like to me that one does

Looks like to me that one does not gain anything from a flame thrower 11 coil worth the price and headache.
 
"Ron...the advantage should be

"Ron...the advantage should be a stronger spark (open the gap a little on the plugs, maybe 5 thou) which should give you a better burn, possibly better fuel efficiency and a little more power (disclaimer...should be)
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"
 
"Guys....here is the PDF file

"Guys....here is the PDF file from Glenn...good info on what happens when the coil resistance is too low, also a couple of pics for reference...sorry for the quality but it's the best I could do after playing with them for a while.
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.marineengine.com/discus/icons/mime_pdf.gif""" align=left alt=""application/pdf"">
[url=""][b]121-BR50.pdf[/b][/url] (78.7 k)</td></tr></table></center>

This pic shows the typical wiring, key point is that the ESA must draw it's 12 volts from before the ballast resistor or (resistor wire) in order to function properly as well as the Pertronix Ignitor module if you have it.
[img]http://www.marineengine.com/discus/messages/12488/252179.jpg

Last pic shows a chart to match up your coil and resistor to work ,like stock. Bottom line is you want as close to 3 ohms total resistance. You can see in the diagram the stock setup was a 1.4 ohm coil along with a 1.5 ohm resistor wire. If you switch to the Flamethrower II that is .6 then you need to either leave the resistor wire plus add a 1 ohm resistor (3.1 ohms total) or remove the resistor wire and add in a 2.3 to 2.5 ohm ballast resistor.
252180.jpg
"
 
"Like Ron I'm having a lit

"Like Ron I'm having a little trouble (no, a lot)grasping the advantage of the ignitor 2 and flamethrower 2 in our application. Why buy a low resistance coil if you are going to turn around and add the resistance back externally. I've been considering upgrading to it but now I'm having second thoughts. I know you gain some dwell control and the auto shut-off feature, but it seems you lose the higher voltage/current which would provide hotter spark
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. As I've said, I've been running the Ignitor1 and stock coil for awhile now. I've left my ignition switch on for several minutes before (whoops!)
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with no damage so I dont see that as a real issue. I think Pertronix has put a little fat in their 30 second recommendation. By the way, my red ignitor lead is connected at the coil + post along with the OMC resistor wire. Pertronix says it works with 8-16 volts. I read 8+ so I guess it's not a problem.
Help me out here Bob.
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"
 
"I tried the wire from the bat

"I tried the wire from the battery to the red wire from the igniter 11 and it would not run not even a pop, I unplugged the cdiESA module ran the 12 volt power, red wire from the igniter11, the resistor wire was placed on the pos side of the coil along with the purple black wire from the starter solenoid, the black wire from the igniter, and the grey from the ESA were on the Neg. pole, I still had no pop and it would not start, I did not push the throttle so I doubt it is flooded, I am wondering now if my igniter is any good, I have no meters to read voltage so will have to get a old mechanic, I am open for any suggestions."
 
"I don't know what to say

"I don't know what to say to that Chuck except maybe you should go and buy a lottery ticket
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If you can run with the ignitor wired to the + post on the coil (after the resistor wire) then that's great and that is the way it was intended to be. However so many are having problems like that that Pertronix put this info into their support page (this is a dup from a post I put in above) I would initially install their stuff according to their instructions and if having problems then possibly follow these steps.

The engine will not start or runs rough. Are there any tests that I can do?
A. Yes, remove the red Ignitor™ wire from the coil positive terminal. Connect a jumper wire from
the positive side of the battery directly to the red Ignitor™ wire. If the engine starts and runs
well, you may have a low voltage problem. Remember this is just a test and not intended for
permanent installation. Read “ How to correct a low voltage poblem”
How to correct a low voltage problem?
A. First, if you have an external ballast resistor, connect the red Ignitor™ wire to the ignition wire
prior to the ballast resistor. Second, if you do not have a ballast resistor you must locate a 12
volt source that is controlled by the ignition switch to connect the red Ignitor™ wire to."
 
"Chuck, that's the way min

"Chuck, that's the way mine was hooked up. When I added .6 coil/resistor and red ignitor wire to 12v source before resistor (as it states above)and opened gap .005 it does perform better. First I did the 12v hookup tested out (leaving resistor wire on coil) and then coil/1 ohm resistor and .005."
 
"Yeah Bob, I've read all t

"Yeah Bob, I've read all the test procedures too. The way I took it was if you have low voltage problems you should make the change. According to this link http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor/default.aspx
the ignitor 1 will operate between 8-16 volts. I am measuring just over 8 volts - engine off. I will be rewiring mine to the 12 volt source to avoid it becoming an issue. Just didn't know better the first time and didn't have a problem.
Now, I'd really like your thoughts on whether or not the Ignitor 2 setup is worthwhile with all the resistance added on. I'm still in a bit of a fog about all that.
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Thanks. I think this horse is about dead.
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"
 
OK Glen. Thanks. Ignitor 2 cla

OK Glen. Thanks. Ignitor 2 claims better high RPM performance. 3000-5000 RPMs. Is that what you saw? Elaborate please.........
 
"Hey Ron. Sorry, we seem to be

"Hey Ron. Sorry, we seem to be getting sidetracked here to say the least. There are several test proedures you can try on the pertronix site. http://www.pertronix.com/support/default.aspx
However, you will need a multimeter. You can get a fairly inexpensive one from Radio Shack or other.
At this point I think I would take Bob's earlier advice and put everything back stock and run the engine just to make sure there are no other problems. Had you run it since fall? (post winterization)"
 
"Bob and all with petronix Ign

"Bob and all with petronix Ign., Petronix called and we talked for some time and he told me that I should stay with the old coil and he believes my igntor has a problem so they are repacing that one. Now he says on the Neg. post put the black igniter wire on there with the grey wire, now the on the pos. side you take the red wire from the igniter and splice a wire on to it and take it back and put it on the post with resistor wire and run the resistor wire back to the positive side of the old coil, he said this would work out to 4 amps, the ESA module would be satisfied and the igniter would have its voltage."
 
"I thought thats how you had i

"I thought thats how you had it wired. Only difference being the added 1ohm resistor
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"Chuck, I had wired the last t

"Chuck, I had wired the last time like glenn had suggested, bought a ballast resistor and went from there, now I will remove the ballast resistor wire it like petronix says, the only resistance will be the stock coil and the resistor wire, before I took the red wire from the igniter 11 and placed on the pos. side of the coil now you have you splice another piece of 14 gauge and run it back to the alternator and the resistor wire back to the pos. side of the coil, that is different than what I had before"
 
"Ron, you seem to be taking on

"Ron, you seem to be taking one step forward and another backwards. Check out this link before you do anything
http://www.pertronix.com/support/manuals/pdf/ignitor12vneg.pdf
Figure 2 only applies if you have a 3ohm coil. You don't. Figure 3 is what you want to get to. The ballast resister they refer is your stock resister wire. What you think you heard is different from this. By splicing 12V to + side of coil along with the resister wire will still give you 12v there. That's not what the diagram says to do.
Of course none of this will work until you get a working ignitor.
Before you get it first put back the points and condenser without any extra wires as suggested earlier just to make sure you have a good starting point.
Then install the ignitor just by attaching it to + (red)& - coil sides with the stock coil wiring in place. It will run.
Step 2 to get more ignitor performance is Figure 3 by hooking/splicing its red wire to the alternator post where the resistor wire runs to. Upgrade of the coil to .6 ohms requires the addition of the ballast resistor. Even though you have decreased the voltage to it with additional resistance you will still get the higher advertised output voltage, because an ignition coil is a step transformer. Which means it stores voltage and upgrades its output through a series of windings."
 
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