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The "Joe Reeves Method"..... (ignition timing setting)

Jupiter Dinghy

Jupiter Dinghy

Regular Contributor
I knew Joe was a treasure of this forum, but I didn't know about his international star status.... until I saw a clip from Dangar Marine, this Aussie guy putting out some very nice tutorials on Youtube, and who mentioned that he intended to post a clip about the "Joe Reeves method" for ignition setting (on Johnson/Evinrude), which allows one to set up timing without the motor running..... Something about taking a set mark and substracting 4 degrees...?

Joe, if you see this, could you please elaborate? Very interested in that method....
 
Geeez... Maybe I should ask for a raise?? :)

********************
(Timing At Cranking Speed 4°)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE: If your engine has the "Fast Start" feature", you must disconnect/eliminate that feature in order to use the following method. The "Fast Start" automatically advances the spark electronically when the engine first starts, dropping it to normal when the engine reaches a certain temperature.

The full spark advance can be adjusted at cranking speed,"without" have the engine running as follows.

To set the timing on that engine, have the s/plugs out, and have the throttle at full, set that timer base under the flywheel tight against the rubber stop on the end of the full spark timer advance stop screw (wire it against that stop if necessary).

Rig up a spark tester on the #1 cylinder plug wire. Hook up the timing light to the #1 plug wire. Crank the engine over and set the spark advance to 4° less than what the engine calls for.

It's a good idea to ground the other plug wires to avoid sparks that could ignite fuel that may shoot out of the plug holes. I've personally never grounded them out and have never encountered a problem but it could happen.

I don't know the full spark advance setting your engine calls for, but to pick a figure, say your engine calls for 28°, set the timing at 24°. The reasoning for the 4° difference is that when the engine is actually running, due to the nature of the solid state ignition components, the engine gains the extra 4°.

If you set the engine to its true setting at cranking speed, when running it will advance beyond its limit by 4° which will set up pre-ignition causing guaranteed piston damage! You don't want that to take place.

No need to be concerned about the idle timing as that will take care of itself. The main concern is the full advance setting.

A fellow member from one of the various marine forums suggested having water supplied to the water pump (flushette or barrel) simply to provide lubrication to impeller. A worthwhile suggestion I thought, and entered here.

Be sure to use your own engines spark advance settings, not the one I picked out of the air here in my notes.

********************
 
Thanks for that Joe, I will push as much as I can for your raise... ;)

I do have a question about this though:
joereeves said:
No need to be concerned about the idle timing as that will take care of itself. The main concern is the full advance setting.
Click to expand...

As I was explaining in this other thread:- http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?454120-2000-Johnson-50hp-Model-J50PLSSM -
my concern is rough running at idle/slow speed, so I wanted to check the idle timing since the full throttle operation is as smooth as can be.... or should I look into something else?
(I have even compression just above 110 on both cylinders)
I understand the idle advance per manual (thanks to joeanna in the other thread) should be between 1 & 2 degree ATDC, or in other words, 1 degree ATDC. So this is what I wanted to check.
 
Jupiter Dinghy said:
My concern is rough running at idle/slow speed, so I wanted to check the idle timing since the full throttle operation is as smooth as can be.... or should I look into something else? (I have even compression just above 110 on both cylinders). I understand the idle advance per manual (thanks to joeanna in the other thread) should be between 1 & 2 degree ATDC, or in other words, 1 degree ATDC. So this is what I wanted to check.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I retired in 1991 so your 2000 50hp Johnson would be somewhat foreign to me..... so many things affect the idle on those high hp 2 cylinders... jet ever so slightly clogged, gasket leaking drawing air, etc.

However, if you're figuring on using that 4 degree timing method to set the idle timing.. disregard the 4 degree mention. That explanation I sent (above) pertains to the full spark advance only.

The idle timing.... just set it as if you were lagging down the no wake zone.
 
No idea... Give it a try, then someday later on, check the full spark advance timing while underway to see how close the setting is to specifications.
 
Not sure if I could safely try it underway on a 14 foot jon and tiller motor.Thought about backing trailer/boat in the water and running it that way.Have done that for just doing tuning purposes, but never ran it full throttle in gear on trailer.Probably could do it with no issue as long as the boat is strapped on good:)
 
Hi, if i had hair I'd pull it out right now. i have a 1971 Johnson 125hp. I had to rebuild the engine do to a broken piston ring. I have been trying to get it running all weekend. I have everything set as the manual says, slow speed screw 7/8 of a turn out, timing at 5, throttle closed, line on cam aligned with the center of the carb linkage. The problem i have with it set like that it only run with the key in start, once it starts the start goes down but i have to leave the key in start as soon as i let it go it dies. If i raise the start lever to full it runs on its own, but no less then 3500 rpm. I just tired this. i removed the throttle cable, moved the carb linkage so it stayed close, and used the idle speed screw to move the timing lever. Move it half turn out. i got to about 1 o'clock with the lever and it started right up and idled at 1000.I haven't checked what the timing was at, getting late. My question is why? Could i of installed the distributor wrong, i used the messing with car. It seemed like it only went one way. But i think it maybe be off. Like a tooth off in a car. Thanks, I did try this method which was the same result as before, only running with the key in start.
 
Contusion... You're on somebody else's thread.... Go to top left area of previous page to "Start New Post".
However, for now... remove spark plugs, have key in ON position, check to see if you have spark, then come back via your own post under your own title/name.
 
racerone said:
VMP-----The timing on your motor normally does not go out of adjustment.----What is your motor doing / not doing ?
Click to expand...
The engine works well at idle and in the middle, but does not want to go over 4000 rpm. Unfortunately, there is no possibility to use test prop.
I'll try Joe's method, see what happens
 
Post the actual values of a compression test.----And does the tell tale fitting hose come off the side of the engine block or off the top of the block ??
 
racerone said:
Post the actual values of a compression test.----And does the tell tale fitting hose come off the side of the engine block or off the top of the block ??
Click to expand...


Good evening Racerone,

Tell tale mode has been made.
The thermostat is new, the engine temperature stays at 63-68 degrees.
The water pump is also new.

I don't remember the exact numbers of the compression test, but they were fine and even. (It was done a year ago) I will try to do the test again in the near future.
As I mentioned, most of the ignition system is cdi's, everything except the ignition coils, they are original and corresponded to the values written in the manual. The spark plugs are champion.

Yesterday I tried Joe's timing method, I got the setting screw turned in quite a lot and almost ran out of threads. The timing with this method came out to 16 degrees, which should correspond to the factory reading of 19 +- 1 degrees.

In addition, I set the idle mixture screw to the factory setting now it is 1turn open was 1.5 turn open. Because the idle was wobbly and rough and the spark plugs were black and wet. I also put new spark plugs.

I did a little test drive today.
The result is a little better idle, but still a little rough, I tried a leaner mixture, but then it started sneezing and died, maybe I should try a richer mixture next time.
The engine is now a bit more lively, the revs rise faster, planes faster, but the max revs are 4800-4900rpm max. When cruising at 3800-3900 rpm, the sound of the engine seemed quite good.
Unfortunately, there is no smooth water anywhere to measure the timing while driving.

Also, I guess I need to work on the throttle cable setup a bit.
Doesn't seem right to me.
Sometimes the lever does not touch the idle screw and sometimes the full throttle screw.


Could joe's method also be suitable for my engine model so that I can continue testing in peace until I find the possibility to measure the timing while driving?

Any advice and tips are welcome.

Greetings from Estonia
 
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